Question to all 3rd party authors

[DDream]

Originally posted by Flash 'N Pack like I said someone brought it to my attention so i though I’d share it with the rest of us here .. I hope you're not mad.... [/B]

LOL! Thanks for bringing that to our attention Flash N Pack! Jasonsplace, you ARE a joke! Ok, I know I said name calling was a no-no, but after all of your hot air and flash studio bashing posts, you're telling northcode to do exactly the same...I'm sorry, that's just PATHETIC.

Also, having read the posts on northcodes forum, it has actually put me off using Swf studio all together. It seems northcode (and his customers) seem to have a very arrogant way about them:

"Yeah, I've had quite a few run ins with Gambini and am now actually tempted to use his product because of the free version (of course I probably wont just because it is supported by Gambini)."

That is just plain ridiculous. The same 2 or 3 people who go on and on about swf studio here do EXACTLY the same on Northcodes forum...*shaking my head*...do you people actually ever do any work? You like the product and that's fine, but bashing alternatives for no reason other than the fact you use swf studio is childish.

Also this comment by Northcode: "You can usually interpret "free for non-commercial use" as "I want market share and I'll sacrifice revenue to get it" would have made more impact if he hadn't followed it up by: "I like the unlimited trial period with limits on the output because you can try the full product for as long as it takes to see if it will do the job."

Ouch! It seems Northcode is a little miffed at the growing competition...and so are his paying (or not in Jasonsplace case) customers...

Personally, I still think all of the apps are good, although my opinion towards swf studio has degraded slighlty based upon the cliental it seems to have and the whole "my app is God" attitude. I still rate Flash Studio over the others. Does more by far, and costs less.

[jasonsplace]

Jasonsplace, you ARE a joke! Ok, I know I said name calling was a no-no, but after all of your hot air and flash studio bashing posts, you're telling northcode to do exactly the same...I'm sorry, that's just PATHETIC.

What did I tell Northcode to do? I dont remember telling him anything.

You like the product and that's fine, but bashing alternatives for no reason other than the fact you use swf studio is childish.

We aren't directly bashing the product. We bash the bad things about each of the products. I just haven't found any for SWF Studio yet. I have used Flash 'N Pack and did not like it. It ran very slow on my computer (Athlon 850MHZ, 512 Ram) and wasn't very easy to figure out. I was going to try Flash Studio but there server can only handle a certain amount of downloads and the 2 times that I have tried it has been overpacked. I have had a few run ins with Gambini but he has asked for most of them.

Personally, I still think all of the apps are good, although my opinion towards swf studio has degraded slighlty based upon the cliental it seems to have and the whole "my app is God" attitude. I still rate Flash Studio over the others.

I agree that some of the apps are better at doing things than others. It just depends on what you need to do. Right now I am making an application to take pictures using a web cam and then saving them to the hard drive. SWF Studio is the only app that I know of right now that even has features that would allow you to do this. We never said that SWF Studio is "god." It sounds like you think that Flash Studio is "the god of all 3rd party tools." I respect your opinion and would appreciate it if you respected mine.

Like I said earlier, I am not trying to start another Flame War. I do not appreciate the name calling at all and think that it is very unprofessional. I'm just putting in my honest opinion that is based 100% on experience with these products and not by being payed off by a developer(like most of you think). Have a Great Day/Night!

[ci-berpages]

Well, let me post my 2 cents. A while back I made a program in Vb that takes Fs commands from Flash and does operation with them. Simmilar to the way all the 3rd party programs work, except it didn't bind with the exe's, you were left with 2 files. It doesn't work with the now Flash mx, but it worked perfectly with Flash 5. To the point, so far I've had a couple thousand people download it. Most of the downloads are referred from this forum. Now keep in mind that Fstools were free to commercial or noncommercial use. Two people from this forum refered people to the software, Estudio and Northcode. Why would, and still does, Northcode refer people to either free software or software made by other companies? The kicker is that I couldn't get my software to work, I was getting weird results from the commandline. Do you know who gave me a module to work everything out? Northcode. Code wise for my program that was about 1/3 of the code. Why would Northcode do that? I think I know why. He's not in this business strickly for the money, he likes helping people. I don't know if he still posts there, but I used to read news groups, alt.macromedia.flash to be precise. Once I saw a guy post that wanted to use Swf Studio for a project that he was to be paid when it was complete, but didn't have the money to buy now. I remeber Northcode sent the guy a reg number so he could finish his job. Sure some people work for big companies, they have money, but then there are people that just struggle to get by. I've seen Northcode do several things like I mentioned, in my mind that gains respect. How many times do you hear of Macromedia or Microsoft giving software away, or giving you a license and letting you pay when you get paid. You don't, you know why? They don't care about you. I much rather prefer going to a small family owned store more than going to an outlet, why? Better service, they do care about you.

Moral to the story, Northcode gives out other programs urls when they are more suitable for an application than his. He made a few freeware programs so people don't have to buy 3rd party applications just for one feature. Well thats my 2cents.

[1a2b3c4d]

Well put ci-berpages!

To anyone considering any of these products I'd recommend that you simply read a few messages here at Flashkit and at each vendors web site.

Northcode clearly cares about his customers and everyone else who needs help. He routinely offers free code and utilities for everyone to use. He is quick to offer multiple solutions instead of just his own.

And, his product is GREAT!

A great product and great service. IMHO, Northcode is someone the newer vendors should want to emulate rather than criticize, that is, if they want to be around a year from now!

[1a2b3c4d]

Originally posted by DDream
1a2b3c4d, I'd like to read your reviews for all 3 products...are they online anywhere?

No problem Gamb...er..DDream! Our reviews are over in the archives at http://www.NeverSaidTheseWerePublish...seProducts.com

Before purchasing SWF Studio we downloaded and reviewed SWF Studio, Flash N Pack and Flash Studio. All three tools seemed capable to us.

We finally selected SWF Studio because of the support Northcode provides and because it had been around longer and seemed more stable. Price had very little impact on our decision.

I stand by my recommendation!
[Edited by 1a2b3c4d on 09-24-2002 at 03:34 AM]

[jasonsplace]

1a2b3c4d, I couldn't get that link to work.

Ciberpages has made a great point here. Northcode isn't only in it for the money and is always willing to help anyone that needs help. I know that a lot of people have used his free utilities to do things that they couldn't do before (ie: Change Resolution, Change Walpapers, etc.). Keep up the great work Northcode.

[Northcode]

Also this comment by Northcode: "You can usually interpret "free for non-commercial use" as "I want market share and I'll sacrifice revenue to get it" would have made more impact if he hadn't followed it up by: "I like the unlimited trial period with limits on the output because you can try the full product for as long as it takes to see if it will do the job."

The first part of that quote was in a post about free/pay strategies and was dead on. I talked about products like WinZip (which is free for personal use) and IE (which is just free). They have both used the unlimited free strategy successfully but with different goals.

The second piece you quoted was four or five posts later and a completely different discussion. I was talking about free trials that are limited but never expire. I like products that work that way so I made my product work that way. The entire unedited thread is here: http://www.northcode.com/forums/show...?threadid=1089

I know some of my users also own other projector products and they pick the best one for any particular job. If SWF Studio can't do what they need, and I can't add the feature in time, they find a solution that works. I'll often point people at products that can do the job if SWF Studio can't so I'm certainly not miffed about competition, it's a good thing.

It's no secret that I sometimes give out registered copies of SWF Studio. People rarely ask for freebies, I normally make the offer. I do it in trade for demos and stuff that I can't do myself, sometimes it's to help out a student trying to get his first paying gig. I've even given copies to non-profit groups. Sometimes I get burned. Most of the time, the gesture is appreciated.

jasonsplace got a free copy, 1a2b3c4d bought a copy. They seem to share some personal likes/dislikes of people/products but I can't control their thoughts. I doubt the free copy I gave jasonsplace a couple of weeks ago has retroactively altered the opinions he or 1a2b3c4d have been posting over the last year or so!

Sometimes the flame wars that erupt reflect badly on SWF Studio, but that's life. It's not my place to tell anyone what to say. When it's good, I'm happy. When it's bad, I suffer through it. If I was paying them you can be sure that all their posts would be 100% politically correct!

I can't control what my users say. I don't pay people to plug SWF Studio. I don't bash anyone's product and I don't ask other people to do it for me. I don't even mention SWF Studio in my posts here unless it's relevant to the thread, unlike those who add advertising footers to every post. No names

[Gambini]

Firstly, this "flame war" if that's what it has become damages the reputation of all parties involved, and is generally not what the FK board was set up to do.

Flash Studio is FREE, and I cannot for one second understand why anybody would have a problem with that. If Macromedia suddenly decided to give the next release of Flash away for free, are you telling me that you would complain?

We made it free so that people can take the time to learn the new commands and utilise it as part of their learning experience with Flash. If people want to use it for personal projects, learning or simply just for fun, then why should they have to pay for it? It seems the only people who have a problem with it being free are 1 or 2 fk members, for reasons unknown to me. Offering our product free is not part of some global conspiracy, or for any marketing ploy other than to provide a quality product which we hope comes in useful. At the end of the day, we'd love for people to purchase the commerical version, we have worked very hard to produce this and it's an ongoing effort to keep improving and updating it. This is no different to swf studio.

As for Northcode and his comments, well it seems you would make an excellent politician. We ourselves have given away full free commercial copies to charities, students and indeed educational establishments. Infact, we donated multiple licences of our other product, Firestorm Remote Edit, to an entire school here to allow children without internet access to make their own websites.

We've been going a lot longer than just Flash Studio, we started with some very simple apps and the release of Flash Studio came at a point when we updated our website and entire structure. Flash Studio isn't the end, it's just the beginning for us.

Yes, we do give links to our software and source code on our footer, what's the big deal? It's FREE! Do you have a problem with members who promote their websites on their footer too? Or memners that provide links to their fla's? There's nothing wrong with advertising, and please don't try and pretend like you've never advertised yourself...

I've said it a million times before and I'm saying it again now and I sincerely hope people take the time to read the entire posts on this board: All of the 3rd party tools available are each unique and beneficial in their own way. It's upto the end user to decide which he/she prefers and which one to use for which job.



[Edited by Gambini on 09-24-2002 at 01:40 PM]

[DDream]

Originally posted by jasonsplace
1a2b3c4d, I couldn't get that link to work.

Try reading the post before just clicking on links. It was 1a2b3c4d's attempt at sarcasm...

[jasonsplace]

DDream, Thanks for being an ass hole.

I don't have a problem with Flash Studio being free. I have a problem with the fact that in general, IT SUCKS. I now not only have a problem with Gambini and his Product, but with his users too. I have now officially decided that I WILL NOT try Flash Studio and will start bashing it even more. The "Flame War" has now begun.

[Guph]

Alright, 2 things.

1-I haven't played around too much with any of the three yet, but have all of them installed-Didn't notice anywhere in there any fscommand options though-If I open Flash MX up, will the commands be in there, or am I supposed to use the commands even though Flash itself doesn't support them, generate the swf, and then run themthrough one of the 3rd party apps?

2-Any way for me to pull the "notify me by email" thing out? As much as I love the free flow of ideas/comments, the whole flame-war thing is sort of annoying-Just when you think something useful is posted in response to the questions I asked (and don't get me wrong, the first few posts were indeed useful, but in the end I've decided to try all 3 and make decisions from there), there is some drawn out response about someone being a moron for their opinions.

I am a student as well, and personally think that if you use a product, like the interface and results and intend to try and make some $$$ using it, you should pay for the product. It really is much the same as certifications in that to get a better job or improve your current one (read make better projects for distribution using a 3rd-party app), you have to pay for the test modules that lead to that cert. All comes back to the takes money to make money thing. And as far as non-commercial use, how many people are truly doing all of this developing for noncommercial projects? I'm working on some stuff for the school dist. that my girlfriend works for as they are an extremely low-income district, and have no intention of charging them for the finished product, but I still intend to put together the cash to pay for the apps I use to get to that finished product.

Damn was that a long post-Figured everyone else was throwing in their 2 cents, and with all of the Reply Posted emails, might as well throw in mine.

Still would like to know about that 1st question (in case you all have forgotten about it by now )

Guph

[DDream]

Originally posted by jasonsplace
I don't have a problem with Flash Studio being free. I have a problem with the fact that in general, IT SUCKS.

How exactly does the program suck? it's free (something you specificly asked northcode for) and you haven't even tried it!!!! Don't make yourself look like an even bigger fool.

Originally posted by jasonsplace I have now officially decided that I WILL NOT try Flash Studio and will start bashing it even more.

How VERY mature of you. Mummy, mummy, all the big kids are mean to me because I'm a jackass! You haven't even tried it but you're going to "bash it"??

Originally posted by jasonsplace The "Flame War" has now begun.

lol...get a life.

[Northcode]

Hi Gambini, I've never had a problem with your product being free. I was talking to someone (in my forums) about using "free for non-commercial use" as a marketing tool. I don't think I even mentioned Flash Studio. You aren't the first or only one to use that.

Nobody has a problem with you recommending your product as a solution when someone asks a question. That's helpful. The problem starts to get out of hand when the advertising comes in EVERY SINGLE POST. That's ADVERTISING.

You're using FK resources to advertise your product and FORCING the people that come here for help to read them too. Nobody wants to be beaten over the head every day with posts that are 90% ads. If all you want to do is advertise to a targeted group like this, you can buy banner space on FK. That's why they sell it.

These forums aren't free to run and the folks at FK have been VERY lenient with all of us. The moderators tried to make this clear before and even threatened to ban people who didn't take heed. If they decide that this is getting out of hand again we'll all be out on the street!

What's happening now is that any question on FK will be met with three or four standard posts. One by me providing a number of soltuions that may or may not include SWF Studio (depends on the question). At the very least I try and include links to ALL projector tools I know of that will solve the problem. One from Gambini saying "my product will do it better". One from FlashNPack saying "my product will do it better". And sometimes one from *********** saying "you can also do this with Jxyz". Only the posting order changes.

[Gambini]

Originally posted by Northcode
At the very least I try and include links to ALL projector tools I know of that will solve the problem. One from Gambini saying "my product will do it better". One from FlashNPack saying "my product will do it better". And sometimes one from *********** saying "you can also do this with Jxyz". Only the posting order changes.

I agree but if you actually go back and look at posts that I have answered, I too have offered alternative solutions and on more than one occasion, I've recommneded your tool because flash studio doesn't have that feature yet.

The bottom line is, if Flash Studio can do something that somebody is asking for, then why can't I recommend it? It's a FREE resource. If the solution to their problem does not require a 3rd party tool, then I try and give them the code.

This whole situation is getting out of hand again but stating that I "FORCE" people to use Flash Studio is ridiculous. I've said time and time again (sigh) that ALL of the products are good and it's upto the user to decide which they use for which project.

[Gambini]

Originally posted by Guph
am I supposed to use the commands even though Flash itself doesn't support them, generate the swf, and then run them through one of the 3rd party apps?

That's it exactly. For example, add the following script to a button within your flash movie:

on (release) {
    shaketime = "10";
    fscommand("flashstudio.shake", "shaketime");
}

Generate the swf, run it through Flash Studio and when you press the button it will "shake" your projector. (You can increase or decrease the shaketime variable for more or less "shakes")

That's just one of the very simple commands, the other fscommands are documented in the help files. Hope you have fun trying them.

[Northcode]

...stating that I "FORCE" people to use Flash Studio is ridiculous. I've said time and time again (sigh) that ALL of the products are good and it's upto the user to decide which they use for which project.

Maybe I typed up the last post too fast I never said you were forcing people to use your software. I said you were forcing them to read all your advertising copy. There's a subtle difference.

I don't personally have a problem with anyone recommending their software here, even exclusively, but I'm trying to think about it from the users point of view.

If someone else "beats" me to a reply I'll normally stay out of the thread if the question gets answered properly, and the user gets all the info they need. If the question is even tangentially relevent the followup "me too" posts usually appear. ***********s are sometimes months later, but they eventually arrive

Basically, buy your advertising and give your help away for free or we're all gonna get banned and I kinda like it here.

[jasonsplace]

I think that it is finally time to put an end to this thread. I am the one that started the argument and would also like to end it. I probably went to the extreme against DDream but I wasn't in a very good mood when I read his posts. This weekend, I will download Flash Studio and maybe even Flash 'N Pack and make a side by side comparison of all 3 tools. I will also write a review of each of them. I do agree with Northcode that you should take the Advertisements off of your footer or maybe just leave a link to your comanies site. You can still suggest your prodcut to people if it is neccesary but it gets kind of annoying having a super long Advertisement in the middle of the page. I do remember when the Mods threatened to ban all 3rd party authors from the board because of them using it for advertising. The exact link is: http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...hreadid=254296

I should not have said that Flash Studio sucks when I have never even seen it. I would like to use the Database functionality and have been waiting for ages for SWF Studio to have that functionality added. Have a Great Day!

[DDream]

Originally posted by jasonsplace
I do agree with Northcode that you should take the Advertisements off of your footer or maybe just leave a link to your comanies site. You can still suggest your prodcut to people if it is neccesary but it gets kind of annoying having a super long Advertisement in the middle of the page.

Ok, I'll admit I was rubbed up the wrong way too and I apologise, but isn't your footer now just a "super long" advert for swf studio cleverly disguised as a "disclaimer."

Have a nice day too

[jamesbooth97]

I should probably not enter this discussion, but i figure what the heck.

I think all three of these guys, Northcode, Flash Studio, and FlashNPack deserve a lot of credit. There may be other 3rd party tools, I apologize if I have left any out. They have provided us tools and capabilities MM did not, and I personally have found these capabilities invaluable to my business. The price for these products is very very cheap. The hours spent developing was a lot, we all know that. They are proud of their work (as they should be), and all seem to try hard to please. While I do not know them personally, I suspect that they are very busy fellows. I suspect they are TYPE A individuals, with excellent entrepreneurial spirits and talented programmers. I expect they love flash, as we all do, and are trying hard to improve it, as well as make it a more powerful tool. So, I do not blame them if they do not elaborate on EVERY other solution available other than theirs in this forum. I applaud them for their time and effort. And I do not mind any short advertizements or links that accompanys their comments.

As far as which one is best for you, that is very difficult to say, unless you know your requirements. I would recommend anyone thinking of a 3rd party tool, to review their requirement carefully, then select the tool that best suits their needs! They may need more than one of these tools!

I had written a long paragraph stating my preferences and then I deleted it, thinking, my preferences may not meet your requirements. So I deleted the whole paragraph!! )

Lastly, my personal opinion is that if any of these talented developers/programmers of these 3rd party tools have a solution to a problem posted on this board, let us hear your solutions. Keep 'em coming! And all of us, as users, should show our support of these products - and buy them or lose them! Guys with this much talent won't work for free for long.