watermarked images

[villain2]

If you unfortunately did a website without a contract but your logos and designs were watermarked and owned by YOU can the client still claim ownership of your watermarked or copywrited material?

[dlowe93]

Originally posted by villain2
If you unfortunately did a website without a contract but your logos and designs were watermarked and owned by YOU can the client still claim ownership of your watermarked or copywrited material?

First, what were you doing working without a contract? No contract == "BAAD!"

Second, the short answer is "no". Copyrights are inherently owned by the creator, at the time of creation, and belong to the creator until explicitly transferred to another. In fact, when you or somebody else uses a copyrighted image, sound clip, or something else that is copyrighted to someone, you are usually paying a licensing fee, not an ownership fee.

Where it gets tricky is whether or not your client actually paid you for the site. If they did not, then they have no claim to your materials. If they did, they may be assuming that they own the material but this is not true, unless explicitly stated in the contract. Since no contract was signed, they really have no absolute claim to your work.

Give us more details and we'll try to help you out.

Hope this helps.

d.

[villain2]

yes, this did help.

I thought this was the case. When a client pays it's for the work done, but they don't own your work. All the contracts I do have that clause that the WORK belongs to me but the site and the domain name belong to the client. If another designer is brought in to redo the site for whatever reason, my work must be taken down immediately once another party is working on the site.

See, I did this for a friend of a friend and worked on good faith. I'll never do that again. they did pay for the site to be designed, and I did explain that I own the design itself. Hmm, doesn't matter because the site was either hacked or it took the server 2 weeks to realize I deleted the files ... she says she has a new server but ... I'm confused with this person.

If you couldn't tell

[aeroflash]

This is a very interesting issue I've been having with clients all along. Check out this one:

I just went thru a job where the client demanded to have the name/password for the FTP. This was unique, usually nobody knows what the heck that is. Curious to know why he wanted it? Cause he wanted a REAL business working with him, not a 2-bit freelancer (he couldn't stand the fact that I called in the evening/weekends, not work hours)! I was so fed with this guy I just gave it away without arguing, just wanted to get rid of him (he had paid for the work).
Now, needless to say, the new designer will have the artwork from the server (HTML and jpegs), but he AIN'T gettin my eps or psd files! If anything, I'll pretend I don't know what he's talkin bout if he request for it!

I deal with this on a client by client basis. If I do a logo, I provide the EPS, so he may use it later for other purposes. If a client states previously that he wants all the artwork when done, sure, we can work it out. You gotta feel em out, you don't necessarily want to harm your relationship by hijacking the artwork. Sometimes it ain't so clear-cut as it seems...

But one thing for sure: CONTRACT, ALWAYS!!!

[villain2]

I think it's a good idea to watermark all your images then, and put it in the contract that you own your creation, that way when the contract is up or if you and the client split ways, your work cannot be used by someone else when you can claim relation to it anymore.

[JabezStone]

I may be the odd guy here, but let me tell you how I deal with my images.

All the graphics I create for a client's site or project are theirs to keep. I release the rights to them with a simple statement that all deliverables are theirs to keep.
Many of the graphics I create for clients use design elements that already exist in some form or another,<edit> and already belong to the client</edit> whether in photos or logos or color schemes, etc. There is no reason that I could see to prohibit my clients from re-using the items I got paid to create.

On occasion, I will use rights-protected photographs (which are simply photos that are licensed for limited use from the photographer) and in those cases will provide my client with the license, showing them the extent that the images can be used.
I do not, however, license or watermark my images.

My clients pay good money to receive a quality product that they have the sole ownership of. This peace of mind builds a trusting relationship with my client that keeps them coming back for more business. I have flat=out turned down paying clients because I felt their relationship with me would be more of a headache than a benefit. If I have a client that I can't trust, it's a client I don't need.

I do feel that there are times when watermarked images could be useful. For example, in the creation of magazine illustrations, photography and other one-time use images. But for website creation, I personally don't travel this road.

In general, I give up everything to my clients except source code and engines.

[ar;gato]

Same here.

If they like it so much they want more, they will come to me. If they're just looking to steal it, I probably don't want them as a client in the first place.

If they rip my work off and re-use it, it's my client's problem, IMO. Their site is being compromised. Ifthey rip off my personal work, well, like I said, I probably wouldn't want them as a client.

If a designer gets work from ripping off my personal work, they probably won't be able to maintain the same level of quality throughout and the client will be dissatisfied. Maybe that client will see my stuff on someone else's site one day and come to me. Whatever.

Thiefing is impossible to control, watermarks look unprofessional, so I just cut my losses and play like everyone is decent. Seems to work out in the long run so far.

[serpent star]

Hay Jabez... can you send me your e-mail address? I have a question and seem to have lost it. My new e-mail address is mat.bastian*@argend.com* ignore the stars. Thanks alot.

[JabezStone]

Originally posted by serpent star
Hay Jabez... can you send me your e-mail address?...

You've got Mail!

[dlowe93]

Originally posted by JabezStone
I may be the odd guy here, but let me tell you how I deal with my images.

I ain't touching that one.

Originally posted by JabezStone
All the graphics I create for a client's site or project are theirs to keep. I release the rights to them with a simple statement that all deliverables are theirs to keep.
Many of the graphics I create for clients use design elements that already exist in some form or another,<edit> and already belong to the client</edit> whether in photos or logos or color schemes, etc. There is no reason that I could see to prohibit my clients from re-using the items I got paid to create.

Sorry, i think i misrepresented myself by not fully reading the question. I understood it to be "i didn't get paid, can somebody use my images". I was wrong.

With that said, i agree with Jabez. If you get paid, the client has ownership of the work. That's what they are buying. I typically go even farther and hand over my .fla files and documentation on final payment, but that's just my process and business philosophy.

d.

[Eyenovation]

I smell a link to proposal kit coming..
I would say: dont work without a contract that spells all this out.

[saucy]

Check This Out,

I stand six foot two at about 210 pounds and come right out of te projects of chicago. When i say send my invoice i state that our company must get paid within 30 days.

If that doesn't happen i send them a email and a letter stating that they need to pay our company. Mind you i am being very respectful and highly respectful and professional.

If this does not work i personally pay a visit to the client.

Sure as i tell you. i alweays seem to get paid on this last trip.

Guess I watched to much Godfather and Sopranos.

But it works.

Only had to do this twice.

Hey what can I Say.

============

saucy

[Eyenovation]

Getting paid by intimidation. Sounds... interesting.

I say too much correspondence is done by email these days.
Why not just pick up the phone? I have had emails somehow find their way into my deleted items without me reading. I just think the less personal the correspondence, the less successful its likely to be.