Breaking News: NASA declares shuttle emergency

[clifgriffin]

[gerbick]

Back to the subject at hand, please? There's enough American bashing threads here... why not use them right now instead of this thread?

I respect your opinions, but this is a tragedy. I didn't post anything in the thread where the British were obviously mourning the Queen Mother's death about a year ago.

Can't you people just take a moment to look at the incident, and not the flag that some people may wave?

Is this world that fragmented and hateful now?

[rhetorical]

[aversion]

Originally posted by hurricaneone
I'm of the opinion that jumping under one flag or the other is akin to taking sides. I don't think this is an appropriate moment to assert nationalism or take sides, rather it is a time for sad introspection on a personal level.

I agree with you, I think what you're maybe underestimating is the cultural trait of americans to turn to their flag in times of difficulty. It doesn't have anything to do with nationalism, they're not asserting anything or taking sides, it's simply a symbol of support for them no matter what it might seem to others.

[aversion]

are there any reports of large pieces of wreckage found?

[clifgriffin]

I haven't heard any large pieces...largest is 2 foot by 3 foot...landed in a parking lot.

Apparently the capsule they were in is virtually indestructible and thermally proof.

So apparently we can't completly rule out survivors. (although it is highly unlikely..my dad said there was the same speculation in '85)

Clif

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by gerbick
Can't you people just take a moment to look at the incident, and not the flag that some people may wave?

Is this world that fragmented and hateful now?

[rhetorical]

Yes, back to the case in point, but it is a highly provocative (negative sense), highly charged gesture, 'specially under the current global circumstances.

Sorry.

[gerbick]

Originally posted by aversion
are there any reports of large pieces of wreckage found?

yeah, some about the size of car parts - bigger than what's being found earlier - are now being found between Athens and Rusk, TX.

[gdstudios]

Originally posted by aversion
are there any reports of large pieces of wreckage found?

A piece in Texas. They were just circling it. Too early to tell what it is. Otherwise, just some of those heat-resistent black under panels have been found in Texas. Reports are coming in from New Mexico to Arkansas. We'll see...

[aversion]

Originally posted by clifgriffin
Apparently the capsule they were in is virtually indestructible and thermally proof.

So apparently we can't completly rule out survivors

indestructable or not, I don't see how anyone would survive a 100mph impact with the ground in it, unless it has parachutes or some other device there can't be survivors.

survivors would be a welcome miracle though

[clifgriffin]

Yeah...I know..I just didn't realize tis previously.

[johnie]

Originally posted by aversion
I don't think it matters how small the bits are, one screw could tell them what happened. They'll want to gather every part they can and, as in plane crashes, create a reconstruction of the craft. I assume there's black boxes to be found as well.

It's worth noting that it was gliding as it came in, engines are not used in shuttle landings and there is minimal fuel on board, it's dumped when they know they're coming in. So whatever happened probably had nothing to do with an explosion, more likely to be a structural problem related to stress/metal fatigue etc. The pattern of debris, that it was close together as it fell, also suggests that it broke up without an explosion.

:|

The Hydralic System controls the wings and rudders though. If it stops working they have no control. Prior to loosing contact they lost the data on that system. The relative Winds at that altitude are very strong and could tear it to pieces if the hits the shuttle the wrong way.

The govt will try to piece together what happenned from the bits of debris.

I wonder if there was a redunent system on board in case of failure. Likewise I wonder if it would be possible to design a capsule cushion or capsule escape system so that future lives could be saved?

-Just thoughts

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by johnie
The Hydralic System controls the wings and rudders though. If it stops working they have no control. Prior to loosing contact they lost the data on that system. The relative Winds at that altitude are very strong and could tear it to pieces if the hits the shuttle the wrong way.

The govt will try to piece together what happenned from the bits of debris.

I wonder if there was a redunent system on board in case of failure. Likewise I wonder if it would be possible to design a capsule cushion or capsule escape system so that future lives could be saved?

-Just thoughts

Sure it's possible.. but as always money is the issue and NASA has been hit hard when it comes to budget.. The Colombia is the older Space Orbiter we have, first flew in 1981. I imagine big improvements like a capsule escape system would be expensive and maybe something that could only be done to new Shuttles.

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/.../columbia.html

[enpstudios]

Originally posted by hurricaneone
Look out, here come the flag wavers.

Yes I am proud of my country and I will always stand by it !!

[Aria]

the NASA press conf is on now ...but thought I'd post this article which is very interesting

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...418462,00.html
a

[hurricaneone]

I read that article (posted by Aria) and I could only think of two things, one, that I cannot imagine that the astronauts that lost their lives today would want the Shuttle program to shut down due to this accident, and two, is this really a disaster? I know, I'm just waiting to get flamed for that one, but surely, it's more of a disaster when innocent, ususpecting lives are ended prematurely, rather than those of people who are acutely aware that the activities they take part in are, obviously, extremely hazardous.

Granted, it is very sad, but I think of it as a tragedy rather than a disaster.

And as another note, not related to that article (directly), I was waiting for some expert to come out and say that the Shuttle program could be shut down - now what good will that do anyone. Really, have we come this far to shut down one of the most advanced, challenging, inspiring acheivments ever. If so, than that would simply admit defeat. I think, after a suitable break, they should get back up and pick up where they left off, if for nothing more but to show that the astronauts today did not die for nothing.

[gdstudios]

Bush speaking now...

[LuxFX]

thanks for that link, Aria, it was very informative. I agree with h1 also. The article seemed to agree with my own initial assessment, that the disaster was caused by loss of attitude during re-entry. This has always been a very dangerous time, and frankly I think we should all be thankful more incidents have not occurred during this stage.

What I don't agree with is h1's distinction between tragedy and disaster. I think of a tragedy as something terrible happening, which leaves nothing but mourning. A disaster, on the other hand, is a tragedy which leaves a wake of effects for days, months, or years to come. Challenger was a disaster because it was a tragedy that killed the shuttle program for several years, and changed the space program, and the lives of those involved, forever. The tragedy of Columbia flight STS-107 will no doubt leave a similar wake.

[Mizak Diza]

"Our journey into space will go on..."

- President George Bush

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by hurricaneone
I read that article (posted by Aria) and I could only think of two things, one, that I cannot imagine that the astronauts that lost their lives today would want the Shuttle program to shut down due to this accident, and two, is this really a disaster? I know, I'm just waiting to get flamed for that one, but surely, it's more of a disaster when innocent, ususpecting lives are ended prematurely, rather than those of people who are acutely aware that the activities they take part in are, obviously, extremely hazardous.

Granted, it is very sad, but I think of it as a tragedy rather than a disaster.

And as another note, not related to that article (directly), I was waiting for some expert to come out and say that the Shuttle program could be shut down - now what good will that do anyone. Really, have we come this far to shut down one of the most advanced, challenging, inspiring acheivments ever. If so, than that would simply admit defeat. I think, after a suitable break, they should get back up and pick up where they left off, if for nothing more but to show that the astronauts today did not die for nothing.

I highly doubt the program would be shut down.. the Space Shuttle is a highly important part of the International Space Station for one.. and the shuttle program is need to service the Station, and the people on the station.

[Hellsbellboy]

Originally posted by LuxFX
thanks for that link, Aria, it was very informative. I agree with h1 also. The article seemed to agree with my own initial assessment, that the disaster was caused by loss of attitude during re-entry. This has always been a very dangerous time, and frankly I think we should all be thankful more incidents have not occurred during this stage.

What I don't agree with is h1's distinction between tragedy and disaster. I think of a tragedy as something terrible happening, which leaves nothing but mourning. A disaster, on the other hand, is a tragedy which leaves a wake of effects for days, months, or years to come. Challenger was a disaster because it was a tragedy that killed the shuttle program for several years, and changed the space program, and the lives of those involved, forever. The tragedy of Columbia flight STS-107 will no doubt leave a similar wake.

way to early to speculate on what happened.