Looking for New logo

[mselto]

I should say that Gutenburg "introduced" movable type... not "invented"... this credit of course goes back much further to the Chinese... (sorry I'm a design dork... can't help it... )

[mx_kid]

Nothing was taken personally, and thanks for the kind comments

I really feel that the bidding sites such as elance and similar are to blame for how the industry is... most often kids and people from India (I have nothing against Indians, but it is a fact) come in and undercut professional designers, charging 1/10th what should be charged. I have been undercut many a time. The standard of work is not as high, and most often is ripped.

I think if someone from flashkit needed helping out with a logo for $25 thats cool with me - Ive done alot of work for FK'rs for free, Ive had work done for me for free... its give and take.

I dont think anyone here can be held to blame for anything.

[gdstudios]

Originally posted by mx_kid
Nothing was taken personally, and thanks for the kind comments

I really feel that the bidding sites such as elance and similar are to blame for how the industry is... most often kids and people from India (I have nothing against Indians, but it is a fact) come in and undercut professional designers, charging 1/10th what should be charged. I have been undercut many a time. The standard of work is not as high, and most often is ripped.

I think if someone from flashkit needed helping out with a logo for $25 thats cool with me - Ive done alot of work for FK'rs for free, Ive had work done for me for free... its give and take.

I dont think anyone here can be held to blame for anything.

He's back! Nice work mx_kid.

[yoda250N]

mselto,

I learned a few things just now. I think it's best on these forums if people say exactly what they think, then we all can learn something. If everyone just says the positive things no one learns nothing.

Anyway, if I see a competition on Flash Kit, I treat it as just something to do for fun. If the people like it fine, if not, I learned a few things on 'Illustrator' that I didn't know before.

[mselto]

You know... I think I may have been both misunderstanding myself and been misunderstood at the same time... (I can juggle while doing this as well...) I have no problem with people sharing work... I survive on doing business this way... in fact I hope to be able to do that here more often! I think my misunderstanding was that I saw this as one of these awful design auction things... which I think are a bad idea. If you are doing work for free for another artist as a mutual relationship type of thing this is different from a random business owner coming on FK and offering 25 dollars for a logo...

The problem is just that though... what really makes a "fellow FKer"?... not saying at all that this was the scenario here... but couldn't this relationship be easily taken advantage of in this venue? I mean if we want FK to have an auction forum then we need to at least announce that it has one... Not that I would EVER want to see this happen as I personally think it would cheapen this wonderful resource... but you know if thats going to happen maybe it should at least be regulated in some way...

know what I mean?

[FI]

Originally posted by mselto
look... im not trying to be a jerk.. really.... I love FK... it has been a great help to me! But this kind of thing sucks!.. When I create a logo it takes a lot of time and effort. I research the industry, gain an understanding of the clients needs... All of this costs money! I don't just slap together some silly thing in photoshop and call it done. When people do this and perpetuate this idea that some kid can just make a logo for 25 bucks in twenty minutes and that is just as good as a well researched and thoughtful piece of design... we all suffer! I dont know... its just sad.. thats all. But please.. I'm trying to be constructive... not just be mean...

I completely agree with you. This situation is the exact same situation larger companies try to nurish. They know the market is for the buyer and heartlessly take advantage of it. Im not saying this logo contest thing here is heartless but the people that entertain it make life difficult for orignal and real design firms.

[gdstudios]

I just don't see it, sorry. We work in a competitive business atmosphere and as the economy worsens, I expect people to start doing jobs for less money and even for free, just so they can continue to build their portfolios until the economy turns around. It's Capitalism folks.

[joebetoblame]

I just wanted to say..Hello. mx_kid is doing a great job on the site. It is looking really Sweet. I just wanted to let you all know that.

Buisiness is Buisiness.

[EnSanity]

bah i just read the thread, well said everyone. as for the new site, i havent been able to see, can i get a link? - much apreciated - Jeff

[Astroflux]

ok, just to put my two cents in here...

both sides(meaning pro/anti $25 logos)have good points. its like a catch 22 or whatever that thing is...good, established designers should not be wh0r3s and do $25 logos but that is for good established designers...as for those just getting started how can you expect any more than cheap pay...even if your work is top notch...

i think its good for experienced designers to do pro bono (or whatever that word is) work...like lawyers do but is that bad for them? i hardly think so...i am just a student pursuing a graphic design degree(and a spelling/vocab lesson or two) i cant expect to get high paying jobs/clients...but if i put in my dues($25 or less logos)my time will come...

however, i also used to sell cars and look what happened to the car business...they are all wh0r3s! I was one...looking for a cheap buck and look at how society views them!

just thought i would comment on this since i was reading it...thx

[joebetoblame]

http://www.mosaiclegs.com/v2/

Please its all under constuction still so you may find broken links etc. Mx_kid is rocking the house...I am proud to be his friend and buisiness associate. Thanks all.



Joe Urena
I mosaic therefore I am

[Pazul]

Now I dont see a $25 PRIZE here on FK as a serious threat to all of us being in the poor house. But then again most people will only put 1/2 hour of work into that design so whoever wins (aka puts more time into it) will more than likely be making minimum wage on the project with NO absolute future biz off of it. So if we were ALL logical we would only produce a logo worth $25 (aka CRAPPY). But young designers (or people just trying to make ends meet) will take a loss on it and GAMBLE for future work off it (gamble because time =$). Notice I say taking a lose as getting paid less than $25/hour which I believe is the absolute minimum any designer should accept.... all MECHANICS make that much shouldnt all ARTISTS?

My thoughts are that we all need to have a mutual code that companies will get what they pay for. However, capitalism does control this to some extent. For instance I have a bid in on a job right now that is going to be $5k it should be $7k+ but the economy sucks and I will lower my rate till companies bounce back. The crappy part of this is that the previous guy got $5k for a POS html site with a javascripted slide show that looks horrible. HOW DID HE GET $5K for it I do not know. Even two years ago it was only worth $250!!! Would take any one of us 3 hours to build tops. Thats what I mean with companies get what they pay for. These people got screwed but luckily they are back in the market looking for GOOD design. IF companies get good design when they fork over the cash they are happy and gladly pay it. My friend's company has some MAJOR companies under their belt and they ALWAYS come back to them with their design needs (Jobs usually run in the $100,000 RANGE... yes I am jealous, but to his credit the companies' sites always ROCK).

I guess the my main point is that if we all undercut to make ends meet we will eventually all be living in cardboard boxes. Once again the point isnt that the logo contest was the root of all evil. MXkid ... you just need to charge them the appropriate rate when/if you do the rest of the site.

HEHE - wow who thought that $25 was worth this whole ordeal? Man spent my 15 minutes on it and I didnt even do any design