Who cares about Flash? Get rid of it

[rafiki55]

Did my subject catch your attention?

Many people seem to be misled about Flash. It isn't bad enough there are a gazillion bad HTML sites, now we have Flash to add to that. Novice/amateur flash sites are even worst than the bad HTML sites. I'm seeing a lot of sites that use Flash just for the hell of it. They could of easily been done it in HTML and it would of loaded faster, abled to be bookmarked, be search engine compatable, etc.

Yes it's nice to look at Flash work, yes it impresses people...but is it functional? Most of the time it isn't. If you look at popular sites, they don't have their main site in Flash. HTML makes more sense and it makes it easier and faster to access content.

If it were up to me, I'd rid of 75% of the coporate, non-designer flash sites out there.

Now don't get me wrong, Flash is a great tool and it is a very effective when used properly...but there lies the problem. So many sites are using Flash just for the hell of it. Are people still using it just because it's "Flash". To be honest, for a lot of Flash sites I'd rather they be HTML...no more lengthy transistions, stupid load bars, or CPU hogging animations.

On the other hand, there are great uses for Flash that are used on a lot of sites...(i.e. ads and movie sites)

Your thoughts...?

[serpent star]

it's about portability, it's about single platform rich media pushing beyond the boundries of black text on a white background. Flash has it's uses. It's not without it's faults, but the advantages of good flash can far outweigh the disadvantages.

I think a more dramatic and far more accurate statement would be that we need shed about 50% of all front end web workers. That would allow for better, more effective sites across the board, and may take the web from the dregs of the IT community to a respectable venue to be employed in.

It's so disheartening to see so many bad commercial sites, so many site owners promised the world from their incompetent designers and greed driven consultants. I think it set the potential for the commercial web back on a scale of years and years, and that really hurt our profession.

IMO

[qetret]

I think I've just found you a new best friend
Jakob Nielson!!!!!! rofl

www.useit.com

[hurricaneone]

Every tool has its benefits and drawbacks, and every tool can, in the wrong hands, create some horrendous work. There's no need to single out one format above any other when it comes to poor work, becasue after all, it's the human working the tool that is ultimately to blame for lousy product.

Yes, plenty of sites developed in Flash could be made in html, and gain the advantage of increased spidering, but then you could easily reverse that by saying there's plenty of html sites which, if developed in Flash, would blow the user away, rather than simply exist.

At the current moment in time, you have to make a choice. What do you want? Increased spidering/imroved search engine placement, or a site which offers cross-browser guarantess and increased user interaction? For me, I'll always lean towards the second, and take my chances with the spidering etc, an inexact, unquantifiable science at best. Better to impress the users that make it to your site than bore the masses when they get linked through.

But that's just me. Maybe you disagree, but that's your prerogative. Flash already has the same database capabilities as html, and the way it's going, I expect that one day it will have the spidering ease of html, so this argument will be mooted out anyway.

[Musicman]

Hi,

the same spidering problem exists for html pages...
If a shop shows a heirarchy of category and product pages, and they all look like individual pages, chances are that a spider actually detects products there.
If the site just shows a story about the company boss being given another big swine award, and there is a search box to start shopping, as well as three featured products of the week, how would a search engine ever get at the products. [If the products themselves are unique, customers might be persistent enough to find what they are looking for .... spiders do not]

Musicman

[gecko2]

It's like saying ban cars because you get irresponsible drivers. It isn't the choice of tool which is poor, it's who used the tool. You're going to get good and sub-standard work in every job field from binmen to business consultants.

Flash is good, but as previous versions have progressed into development tools from being design tools you'll see flash sites more internet friendly. Whether the average designer will look at what should be done is another case.

Too many angles on this one for me to spend too much time to rabbit on about.

Good thread, but got work to do!

[erova]

call me a macromedia pr freak, but i agree with them that while there will always be a commerical market for flash, the real money and forward thinking development will be in flash application development that has very little to do with alpha tweens and swish.

of course, these apps are usually not built for the general public and thus not as widely recognized, but they're definitely out there and the companies are more than willing to pay for good work.

[nocrapchurch]

I have found that doing Flash Applications is a much more profittable than the marketing sites we've all grown to hate. I use very little Flash on my site, but have done dozens of Flash sites.

About six months ago, I started developing applications using Flash MX and haven't turned back from it. Components made development a millions easier than with Flash 5.

Scott

[pheck]

i agree.

i'm now working on my 3rd major flash application, and will soon start a fourth. the demand for them is much higher than the traditional flash corp site, and the fact that we are all seeing products like SWF Studio, Flash Studio PRO, RoboFlash, and other app development tools popping up, adds to the evidence. as i see it, since i started developing with flash 2-3 years ago, i've noticed 2 major changes. first one was from sites to templates about 9-12 months ago, now surging ahead into apps.

[serpent star]

discussion on value of flash includes alot of people who don't really like flash. Interesting anyway.

[chrisd9]

same here...

my two major projects from last year were flash applications...

out of curiosity, and maybe this needs to be a new thread, but what sort of applications was flashed used for?

both of my projects were along the lines of training. one was for a huge industrial company and i used flash to develop a "plant orientation program" with 16 sections, quizes at the end of each, and printable results

[pheck]

all mine have been e-learning based. embryo, physiology, anatomy.... but then again i am in this specific field.

[chrisd9]

same here...

however we kind of fell into the who training arena... wondering how many other practical applications of flash people have used besides along the "training" line

[aeroflash]

Originally posted by chrisd9

out of curiosity, and maybe this needs to be a new thread, but what sort of applications was flashed used for?

I had two apps last year, for the company i work for.
One, an image viewer where you could select and save large res images to your hard drive, install screensavers and wallpaper.

The other, would compare internal airplane dimensions side by side. Then, using a screenshot, generate a BMP so the user can insert it into a presentation, e-mail, etc. Thanks Northcode! They were great, very patient with all my air-headed questions.

I'd like to hear other application ideas as well...

[duskj79]

I'm a designer who just recently finished studying web design at university. I can understand your views and opinions about flash but like others have said the program isn't the downfall for poor sites on the web.

I also believe that without bad there cannot be any good so there will always be the problem of rushed websites and bad design work.

I myself prefer the flash option but have grownn to appreciate the use of HTML sites.

Flash has a very important purpose for the internet, it creates an artistic edge for this medium that HTML lacks the ability to do.
For example...I've created my personal portfolio in flash and I find that this way produces the results I need to advertise myself. I'm showing off my skills and demonstrating that I have a knowledge and a design awareness.

When I say lacks I don't mean that a viewer can't create an artistic piece within HTML...flash just makes it easier to accomplish. I'm probably biased as my progression through design was mostly through flash.


I guess you can say FLASH is to HTML as DVDS are to VIDEO TAPES

well there ya go my two cents...actually that was probably a dollars worth of my time...

[Rilian20]

Right brain. Code evil.