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  1. #41
    Flash Developer on a break
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    Or you could do it server based. What sounds like a much better idea to me. You would keep everything in your own hands. People could make the games for free, but if they want to save/export them they would have to pay for it.

    Much like 'flash DesiGn enGine'. (See Flashkit front page.)

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  2. #42
    2KHeroes / Sylvaniah designer luxregina's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tonypa
    (...)but if you really are thinking about releasing game editor for people who have little knowledge of programming (...)If they click somewhere (...)they will say "this program I bought doesnt work!"(...)
    Hey !

    I'm sorry Tonypa, you've been the starting point of my big project, with your tuts, and i cannot thank you enough for that, but i also cannot not react to your post ...

    I consider myself as that crowed that "have a little knowledge of programming" ... Understand me : i make a living building Flash sites, and some of them are pretty evolved in term of navigation, interactivity etc, etc ... but, of course, none of them requiers an as extensive knowledge of AS as a (good) game would ...

    Though, i still think i have valuable ideas about how a game should be, about organization, and even, sometimes, about how (or what ) the code should handle certain things to be successfull : that's not about programming skills, that's all about logic and organization ... (here, i could lose myself into explainations and examples that would illustrate and bore everybody ... )

    What i mean is that not every "wannabe" game-maker is nessecarly an assisted personn that cries for help at the first difficulty

    And that's why the price of the engine shouldn't be too high : Flash game editor( as far as i know ) cannot be the remedy without a basic knowledge of AS, nor the lack of personnal curiosity : the editor won't ( i guess ) be as evolved as a click-and-play application : a simple waiver should do the trick, especially if the price is low enough so that people realize that it is a great help, but not the absolute weapon ...
    It is late, and i'm not sure of my english, but what i mean is that lots of people are curious, eager to learn and that such a tool would be really welcome : their curiosity/experiments will do the rest ...
    they won't nessecarly call for stupid questions, and, if questions are, they might help the makers of the editor to improve the accuracy of their product ...


    Lots of guys skilled in coding think they are part of an elite just because they are nessecary to achieve a project (here, i'm not talking about you, of course, but in general ...) and i believe it's bad : good coding, as good GFX, need as much time, dedication and talent to produce an harmonious final product ... if there is a software that can help with a portion of that, if that software is inexpensive enough, and efficient enough, then i think that a lot of people will be tolerant with it ...

    (edited, just mellowed a bit, 'cos i was a bit overreacting and ridiculous )

  3. #43
    Vox adityadennis's Avatar
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    $150! Bit steep for me, given my current financial situation

  4. #44
    Spelunker Beatcow's Avatar
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    Hey you know whats cool, we are the best of the best... I mean, all those newground blamers are all like "This game sucks". I wish i was a magical pixie who could fly to their house and say " Yo, you know how much time it took this guy to do this, oh no wait Coolazz did it(jokes to Coolazz). I mean, we are like the ones who keep the web in place with interactivity. But wait till im workin as software engineer.... Ill look over you all and laugh. Ok now im real tired. And forget the pixie thing, maybe a cow...YES A FLYING COW

    P.S Im tired, real tired and this post was to Flashkit. VIVE FLASHKIT, and quebec!

  5. #45
    w00t io::pred's Avatar
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    Ummm.. I think that this is just a map editor.. which outputs maps for different types of games.. it doesnt create the game itself.. I'm pretty sure of this cause the adventure game portion of it is being developed for the collaboration between tomsamson, phreax, daydream and I...

    I think you guys are getting confused with like click'n'play, and a map editor..

    (or atleast thats what I think, if it is a game maker, tomsamson your arse you've been keeping things from me =)
    Last edited by io::pred; 05-22-2003 at 11:42 PM.

  6. #46
    Yes we can tomsamson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by io:red
    Ummm.. I think that this is just a map editor.. which outputs maps for different types of games.. it doesnt create the game itself.. I'm pretty sure of this cause the adventure game portion of it is being developed for the collaboration between tomsamson, phreax, daydream and I...

    I think you guys are getting confused with like click'n'play, and a map editor..

    (or atleast thats what I think, if it is a game maker, tomsamson your arse you've been keeping things from me =)
    i just came into office and have quite some things to do,so i´ll answer the other posts once i´ve got around them (a bit later today),
    just wanted to make this clear right away:
    the creator itself does not create game engines,it can output graphics and code/xmls/txt files etc required to create the game.
    the engine coming together with the creator is ready to load all the produced files to create/run the game,so you could either output just map data/graphics and use that in your own game engines or use the engine accompaniying the creator so you don´t have to code an engine.

  7. #47
    Senior Member tonypa's Avatar
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    Originally posted by luxregina
    I consider myself as that crowed that "have a little knowledge of programming" ... Understand me : i make a living building Flash sites, and some of them are pretty evolved in term of navigation, interactivity etc, etc ... but, of course, none of them requiers an as extensive knowledge of AS as a (good) game would
    Sorry lux, I didnt expect you would take my post that seriously

    Its my fault to think game editor would be eventually click-and-play thingy. I understand now that it wont replace Flash and that it would still require learning AS before attempting to create game.

    I consider myself as that crowed that "have a little knowledge of programming" ... Understand me : i make a living building Flash sites, and some of them are pretty evolved in term of navigation, interactivity etc
    I too consider myself "having a little knowledge of programming"
    What I meant was someone who doesnt know anything about AS and doesnt even know what is Flash.

    none of them requiers an as extensive knowledge of AS as a (good) game would
    Hope you dont get me wrong again, but I believe good game requires good idea. Extensive knowledge of AS might help, but is not required.

  8. #48
    2KHeroes / Sylvaniah designer luxregina's Avatar
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    Hope you dont get me wrong again(...)

    Hey Tonypa : nothing personnal, as i said, you've been a great help so far for lot of people and patient enough to explain lot of code ...

    I just wanted to state the fact that non-coders can wish to improve, understand, learn etc ... Of course, you will always find people that wait for their dinner cooked with a wide open mouth and the arms in the back (vivid image, huh ?) , but those shouldn't penalize the other ones...

    A tool that makes things faster, or less painfull would be great help for these ones

    Sorry about the previous post, it was not directed at you, and let's say, a bit too intense ( was tired yesterday night ...)

  9. #49
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    Originally posted by tomsamson
    so you could either output just map data/graphics and use that in your own game engines or use the engine accompaniying the creator so you don´t have to code an engine.
    So in effect, you give them a 'click-and-play' game because of the accompaniying engine.

    Note to lux and tonypa. Remember that making a 'click-and-play' game will ALWAYS be a 'standard game' with 'standard' gameplay. Making really awesome and successive games requires more gameplay and more knowledge of Flash.

    | "Keep Flashing!"-Jeroen
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  10. #50
    w00t io::pred's Avatar
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    Im pretty sure the accompanying engine will be bare bones.. not really click'n'play... click'n'play let you do all kinds of things.. set of things when things collided etc.. Im sure the accompaning engine will need alot of modification to make different types of games etc.

  11. #51
    Yes we can tomsamson's Avatar
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    you´re right with that in a way,sure for each game type,there need to be a lot of modifications in the game engine,but it will be far from a bare bone engine,it´ll have several game engines in one and switch the needed parts on/off depending on the current game settings.

  12. #52
    Yes we can tomsamson's Avatar
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    just came back home,so time to answer all replies i didn´t have time for in the afternoon:
    to jtnw: sorry bout your negative experiences with ng,still think they´ve got a cool concept with letting everyone vote and post stuff (sad that its abused by many in that way).
    about the creator making developers useless,i don´t think so,as i said before creating games does take a lot more work than coding the initial engine.
    besides that the creator won´t let you create all game types you could imagine but several selected genres,so there´s enough room for creating games which can´t be done using the creator.
    however (as i noticed several thoughts related to this: )
    the creator will allow the creation of high quality games of the supported game types.
    still,i want to make one thing clear: its intended to become the best flash game creation application,not the tool which creates the best games by itself (that´s still up to the one using it).

    Originally posted by adityadennis
    $150! Bit steep for me, given my current financial situation
    that wasn´t a real price statement by jeroen,he just used that to compare with other software



    to beatcow: flying cows? man,it must have been late



    Originally posted by tonypa
    Dont want to sound evil, tom, but if you really are thinking about releasing game editor for people who have little knowledge of programming then you are facing big trouble.

    If someone buys your creator believing it will create great game for him and it turns out not to do everything he expected then believe me he will start to blame you, the guy who made program that doesnt do everything

    Also aiming for not-so-much-programmer audience means countless security checking and debugging of your editor. Things average user is capable of are way over imagination of programmer. If they click somewhere they shouldnt and press something wrong they wont say "oh, no, I pressed wrong button", no, instead they will say "this program I bought doesnt work!"

    Prepare lots and lots of pages tutorials, help files, samples and hire couple people to answer all the questions you have covered in tutorials, help files and samples, which average user usually skips just after he spots word "function" or "trigonometry"...

    Dont forget: "easy to use" is not same as "everybody understands it same way you do".

    What I actually meant to say, was good luck

    thanks,i get what you mean and i´m preparing tutorials for many things,still the creator is not aimed at people having problems while using basic functionalities of common applications,its built for people who can work with graphic applications like photoshop,fireworks or similar ones,so mainly for graphic designers (or even coders who´re just too lazy to code a good engine for the current project).


    Originally posted by jeroen84
    So in effect, you give them a 'click-and-play' game because of the accompaniying engine.

    Note to lux and tonypa. Remember that making a 'click-and-play' game will ALWAYS be a 'standard game' with 'standard' gameplay. Making really awesome and successive games requires more gameplay and more knowledge of Flash.
    you know how many jum´n´runs there are which feel like having a total different gameplay because of a few innovative elements?

    if you have enough options to choose from,you can create a large variety of games

  13. #53
    Vox adityadennis's Avatar
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    that wasn´t a real price statement by jeroen,he just used that to compare with other software
    Yeah, I was just afraid you'd follow his advice

  14. #54
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    Hmm.. If the appliacation will allow you to make high quality games as you said, then in my oppinion that would be even underpriced.

    *buys the app for $150*
    *creates an awesome game*
    *sells it for the cheap price of $500*
    *goes back home with $350*

    If you want to price something, you would have to think about multiple things. Price of comparable programs; what the program gives you; is it reasonable; market holder?; etc; etc...

    tomsamson - what did you think of my suggestion about keeping the game creator server based and letting the users pay per game they export?

    | "Keep Flashing!"-Jeroen
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  15. #55
    Vox adityadennis's Avatar
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    The games factory, by clickteam.com, sells for ~ $90.

  16. #56
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    why not have a free version that embeds advertising in the .fla (which tomsamson gets the revenue for). and a professional one for x dollars. i think price is just a balancing act. do you sell it for $190 and sell 100 copies or do you sell it for $50 and sell 1,000 copies. i think you just gotta feel your way around there and see what the market will bear. btw if you embedded advertising (in the free version) that identified the copy that generated the revenue you could mail the dude who downloaded it and tell them how much you made off their game to encourage them to buy the professional version.
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  17. #57
    Senior Member tonypa's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jeroen84
    *buys the app for $150*
    *creates an awesome game*
    *sells it for the cheap price of $500*
    *goes back home with $350*
    Add Macromedia Flash MX for $499 and time to learn AS enough to use toms game engine.

  18. #58
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    Blink, you're right with that. You always have to probe the market right for stuff like this.

    Tonypa, if I understood tom correctly, you won't need flashMX..

    | "Keep Flashing!"-Jeroen
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  19. #59
    Who needs pants? hooligan2001's Avatar
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    Just thinking a program like this could really put alot of us developers outa business

  20. #60
    Senior Member tonypa's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jeroen84
    Tonypa, if I understood tom correctly, you won't need flashMX..
    I dont know, I read what tom said.

    Originally posted by tomsamson
    the creator itself does not create game engines,it can output graphics and code/xmls/txt files etc required to create the game.
    the engine coming together with the creator is ready to load all the produced files to create/run the game,so you could either output just map data/graphics and use that in your own game engines or use the engine accompaniying the creator so you don´t have to code an engine.
    sounds to me like do you still need the FlashMX unless the engine itself is exe that can load map/graphics produced by creator and complie/save new game swf with those datas...

    Last edited by tonypa; 05-25-2003 at 07:37 AM.

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