Is the Web-Site Design Industry Dead?

[dlowe93]

Originally posted by hurricaneone
To say that if you're working for yourself and take some time off, then you'll need to make that time up, is trying to put a corporate template over a self-employed template - and it's not going to fit.

There's no such thing as lost time. You just do what you have to do, and if that means staying up all night or working on Sunday to get the job done because you went out with your family the day before, well that's just the way it is. There's no clock-in, clock-out, no 'I'll make up the time I took to walk in the park by staying late on Thursday' simply because you stay late everyday - because you live where you work.

And I don't think that dlowe was 'blowing a client off' - he was losing them by choice, because unlike when you work for a company and you're handed a client portfolio whose contact is a complete jackass and you JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT, when you work for yourself, you have the option to make the executive decision to say 'you and your project can **** off, and you can find some other poor individual on which to inflict your abrasive, self-important attitude'.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think i've ever worked an 8 hour day as a self-employed person. It seems to be either a 2 hour day, or 12+. There's really no in between.

One of the great myths of being self-employed is that you can work whenever you want to. The truth is that you work when there's work. End of story.

d.

[hurricaneone]

Tell you what my favourite part of the gig is - right after you sign a new deal, and take two/three/four days to enjoy the success, maybe you'll consider the project, mebbe not, maybe I'll go and sit in the sun and have some chilly beers on a Wednesday afternoon and watch the peeons shuffle back from their offices, maybe I'll sleep late and get up at 11 and not my usual 10 o'clock, maybe I'll go down to the beach for a day or two...

Now that's livin'.

[erova]

the only thing that sucks though (relatively speaking of course) is that when i try ducking into a bookstore or mid-day shopping it's like i'm runnin an obstacle course to keep from trippin over all the strollers

[johntabita]

It sounds like both of you are successful. You've built a lifestyle around your work that satifies you. I guess where we disagree is in what we each want out of "self employment." For example:

To say that if you're working for yourself and take some time off, then you'll need to make that time up, is trying to put a corporate template over a self-employed template - and it's not going to fit.

My goal is to turn self-employement into a successful business (I have 2 partners). So I believe that it is essential that I "put a corporate template" over my self-employment (thanks for that great analogy.) For me, that means running my business as much as possible as a "real" business, so that eventually we hire people to replace us. That's why acting like an employee of my business by setting regular hours would be important to me. (That's what I meant by "making up the time later.") Besides, I would want to create some kind of a structure, to keep a separation between work life and family life.

I'm not saying either of you are wrong; you've created exactly the kind of work environment you wanted. Congratulations on pursing your dreams and being successful. It's more than a lot of us have done.

[MG315]

you definately need to buy the web design business kit. i bought it and it addresses everything you would ever need to know when building up your business. great investment. for more info go to www.sitepoint.com

in regard to this:

For me, that means running my business as much as possible as a "real" business, so that eventually we hire people to replace us. That's why acting like an employee of my business by setting regular hours would be important to me.

there are a few things you should consider. Firstly, If you plan on hiring people to replace you, the best thing you can do is to establish systems. Make it so when a prospect contacts you, you have already prepared how you will respond and can answer any question they have. Once you have established this, later when you expand you can take on more people and they can learn this system rather than going through all the trial and error you have gone through (simple example is mc donalds. they developed systems for the development of fast food, now they sell these systems - not the actual food. people buy the systems and then employee people with no work experience (teenagers) to operate it, and they can successfully because its such a great system mc donalds developed). Remember to work ON your business, not IN it. yes, in the beginning you'll spend long hours working everything out and figuring out how you should do things, but prepare for expansion and make your life easier - automate tasks that are repetitive. Then you can later hire people to do it all for you, sell their services for twice what you pay them and just work on improving your business systems.

Define what you consider success, set goals and then achieve them. For some (myself included), success is waking up late, going out for brunch, stop in the office and then leave early everyday to golf. For others it is to work long hours developing a highly successful business and becoming extremely wealthy in the process. Don't critisize someone for their interpretation for success, don't critisize someone for their goals, critisize someoene for not working hard enouch to achieve them.

[johntabita]

you definately need to buy the web design business kit. i bought it and it addresses everything you would ever need to know when building up your business. great investment. for more info go to www.sitepoint.com

I got mine about 10 days ago. I wish I had this 2-1/2 years ago when we first started out. There are a lot of things in it that we learned the hard way.

there are a few things you should consider. Firstly, If you plan on hiring people to replace you, the best thing you can do is to establish systems. Make it so when a prospect contacts you, you have already prepared how you will respond and can answer any question they have. Once you have established this, later when you expand you can take on more people and they can learn this system rather than going through all the trial and error you have gone through (simple example is mc donalds. they developed systems for the development of fast food, now they sell these systems - not the actual food. people buy the systems and then employee people with no work experience (teenagers) to operate it, and they can successfully because its such a great system mc donalds developed). Remember to work ON your business, not IN it. yes, in the beginning you'll spend long hours working everything out and figuring out how you should do things, but prepare for expansion and make your life easier - automate tasks that are repetitive. Then you can later hire people to do it all for you, sell their services for twice what you pay them and just work on improving your business systems.

Thanks for sharing this. It sounds like you've read The E Myth. I'm just finishing it.

[Hellsbellboy]

Doesn't sound like you are freelancing then. You have a long term commitment.

[OddDog]

finally an intelligent business thread on FK (lets be honest it has been a while ...)

ok some thoughts to share,

I run and own a 7 person multimedia agency. I have been in the business less than 2 years. I am self taught. I am a very bad designer and even worse programer. I really only learnt html. Got jobs that required better design then I could offer (the prices been paid I could not justify my design at) and slowly got staff to design and program for me.

On the question of were the web design business is heading I have a strong opinion.

Internet in Spain captured 1.3% of corporate communicacion and publicity budgets in 2002. I believe this percentage will increase. Lets say to 5% in the next 5 years. That is a huge increase.

So just kept your client base happy. Keep adding new services to your product list (look at tracking and SEO, very profitable for us at the moment) and you will do fine. Watch as your client base without growing in number grows in billing.

just my opinion.

[johntabita]

Internet in Spain captured 1.3% of corporate communicacion and publicity budgets in 2002. I believe this percentage will increase. Lets say to 5% in the next 5 years. That is a huge increase.

This brings up an interesting point. Is Internet usage growing faster in other counties than in the US? What is the attitude of the businesses in these contries about the web compared to US businesses?

Is it the US web design industry that's dead?

[dlowe93]

Originally posted by johntabita
This brings up an interesting point. Is Internet usage growing faster in other counties than in the US? What is the attitude of the businesses in these contries about the web compared to US businesses?

Is it the US web design industry that's dead?

i'm doing several big jobs for Intel right now. We were working out localization strategies and i asked should we be targeting European Portugese or Brazillian Portugese, there was no question about it. One of their largest and fastest growing markets is Brazil (hey Hurricane, biz opps right there!).

I don't think the US market is dead, but it certainly has stabilized. I'm lucky enough to have some retail clients who update their sites 3-4 time a year or more, but a large percentage of companies who have a marcom budget are on the web in some way or another.

It's nothing like it was 5-6 years ago where everyone needed a website and needed it yesterday, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was like that in some other markets.

d.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by dlowe93
One of their largest and fastest growing markets is Brazil (hey Hurricane, biz opps right there!).

Anybody inparticular I need to talk to, Dave?

[dlowe93]

Originally posted by hurricaneone
Anybody inparticular I need to talk to, Dave?

We have a creative review on Tuesday. I'll ask.



d.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by dlowe93
We have a creative review on Tuesday. I'll ask.



d.

That would be mighty neighborly of you.

[dlowe93]

Originally posted by hurricaneone
That would be mighty neighborly of you.

j.

you got mail.

d.

[audas]

Yeah I mean the direction that things are going now is dont just design. It is a bit passe. People like the guy started this thread want to do brochure style sites. Not any more. They have to add a whole lot more thatn that, then charge more. I freelance and try to keep up at least two jobs a month. Was really struggling at first,but am slowly getting there now. Started off thinking I was the best designer in the world, (sorry mate but when you put that post saying how good you own work was I laughed, then again I'm Australian and we dont like people talking themselves up), but am now constantly realising how much there is to know, how much just too keep up. I started off as a a designer, graduated with fine art degree as well. Started programming on the Vic 20 16 years ago, and did twenty years study in music. A creative you might say. But I spend almost all my time learning and pushing the boundaries of programming so that I can offer a lot. Let me see your flash Dj Site on a mobile that people can dowload mp3 straight to their phone using the Opera Browser 7 for the Sony p800 and Motorola A920, but make sure it can be mms delivered to WAP phones, and browsed for as well.
The web is going to be huge in three or four years time, massive compared to waht it is now, be prepared to change. Just remember how many graphic designers there used to be, I wonder how many of you actually use pen and ink.
A few things to remember, of the top 500 us companies around when television was invented, only 2 % survived, the rest rejected TV as a fad.
At the end of th 18th Century an English scientist proclaimed that "everything of significance that is going to be invented, has already been invented."

[Hawkster]

Originally posted by Hawkster


My point is this:

If me being self taught, no previous experiance in webdesign(i.e not been paid, or even have a "proper" portfolio) can get a job that pays 30k+ a yr (as apposed to the 19k for engineering i was earning), plus a qualified certificate(payed for by this company), THEN THE INDUSTRY IS NOT ONLY LOOKING GOOD BUT ALSO SCREWED UP......lol


P.S. I dont really expect to get this position, it was/is just good experiance for me as i never have applied for this type of job b4, i like webdesinging as a hobby and thought i would be interesting to see what companies would/are offering.....i'll be sure to post back and let you ppl know if i get the job or not...prolly not though

[/B]

OMG i just got an email offering me the position.......WEEEEEEEEEEEE
i nearly fell off me chair when i read it......so beers on me fellas

[steveguberman]

congratulations you lucky bastard!

[J-Luv]

i think there is a clause somewhere for you paying each of the board members a percentage for giving you good advice. i think it is deducted from your paycheck. go ahead and give us your contact info now.

[hurricaneone]

Originally posted by Hawkster
OMG i just got an email offering me the position.......WEEEEEEEEEEEE
i nearly fell off me chair when i read it......so beers on me fellas

Nice one, fella