Very disappointed in MX 2004

[MikeDowney]

Originally posted by 98svt
"Flash for Jerks"?
What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Who are you quoting? I don't want anyone thinking it was me... :-)

MD

[bryan.fury]

well since you completely ignored my post ,,, this is for you, mike:

screenshot from a document opened in MX:






same doc opened with MX 2004:




using a trial version of mx2004 ...

[MikeDowney]

Originally posted by bryan.fury
well since you completely ignored my post ,,, this is for you, mike:

Ah, thanks. Sorry, I somehow missed your post.

Can you send me the FLA so I can have tech support look at it?

Thanks,
MD
mdowney@macromedia.com

[98svt]

Not you Mike. Some other jack a$$!

Mike

[epowder]

ok Mike,
i'm not trying to pick on you or something (because i've seen the way you react to people quoting you ?

So far i have only encountered one bug(a bug to me): in Win XP Pro SP1 after clicking a Flash document in explorer, MX2004 loads and then gives me a Javascript error (same kind of error i was having using Dreamweaver MX when i tried to use a certain menu command)saying that it can't find the file. I need to open it from inside Flash.

But, you seem to be able to make me happier:

Originally posted by MikeDowney
As I've been responding to most of the complaints, I'd say that 80 or 90% of them were easily solved due to the user just not knowing why something wasn't there, or why they were experiencing strange behavior, etc, etc. That's what tech support is for.

so please, can you tell me why the local undo states have disappeared. Because this i don't know. If i would, you could have been only talking about 70-80%.

regards
me

[cwflash]

Mike,

I think that you should rethink the way you are responding here. Your burning bridges and actually pissing off a lot of people. If there is nothing wrong with this release than why are you so defensive? My wife and I both work for Autodesk and we both use Macromedia products. I have a gigs worth of MX Flash files on my machine if I am going to convert all those to MX04 I would like them to work exactly like they do in MX (actually better). Currently they do not. Going into a forum full of frustrated people and telling them thier problems are imaginary is not a good move. We are your customers dude. I wasn't the least bit upset or feeling the need to dog your company until reading your posts.

[keyone.it]

Originally posted by 98svt
Not you Mike. Some other jack a$$!

Mike

Man I kinda ignored your quote as you don't seem to be worth it, but you are getting annoying.
If you read well my post this is what I mean (I'll just put in another example, so it's easier to understand):

Would you like to be harmed by a product superficially designed by a design newbie that managed to use a design/engineering software because it was easy to use?
Just as an example there is a software called ProENGINEER (by PTC) which lets you design a whole darn engine and simulate it's workings...it's a very difficult tool to use because it's intended for professionals. Nobody would want a newbie to easily learn how to use it because it's not for everybody.
I had to sweat blood to learn how to use it, and I yet know about 15% of what it can do, and I'm happy with that, because people that use it get paid a lot.

Flash is the same thing, it's (actually it should be) a tool for professionals, and no, it should not be intended for everybody.

Just because you are able to buy it, doesn't mean you should be able to use it...not without long and stressful training.
You can go out and buy professional programs for more that $100.000.00...this doesn't mean you should use them without PROFESSIONAL KNOWLEDGE.


You can easily see the difference between a good Flash site and a bad one...and it has nothing to do with the skills with Flash...it's about the talend and knowledge of the author.
Macromedia is trying to bring Flash to the masses (and you can see that by taking a look at all the crap Flash sites out there)...and this can be good on their marketing side, but the web is suffering real cheep quality, because it's now too easy to build sites.
This is wrong.
If someone get's paid to do a site, it should mean he's professionally capable of doing it.

And I don't think this is a childish way of thinking, this is a fact.

Ascanio.

[keyone.it]

Originally posted by 98svt
Not you Mike. Some other jack a$$!

Mike

Man I kinda ignored your quote as you don't seem to be worth it, but you are getting annoying.
If you read well my post this is what I mean (I'll just put in another example, so it's easier to understand):

Would you like to be harmed by a product superficially designed by a design newbie that managed to use a design/engineering software because it was easy to use?
Just as an example there is a software called ProENGINEER (by PTC) which lets you design a whole darn engine and simulate it's workings...it's a very difficult tool to use because it's intended for professionals. Nobody would want a newbie to easily learn how to use it because it's not for everybody.
I had to sweat blood to learn how to use it, and I yet know about 15% of what it can do, and I'm happy with that, because people that use it get paid a lot.

Flash is the same thing, it's (actually it should be) a tool for professionals, and no, it should not be intended for everybody.

Just because you are able to buy it, doesn't mean you should be able to use it...not without long and stressful training.
You can go out and buy professional programs for more that $100.000.00...this doesn't mean you should use them without PROFESSIONAL KNOWLEDGE.


You can easily see the difference between a good Flash site and a bad one...and it has nothing to do with the skills with Flash...it's about the talend and knowledge of the author.
Macromedia is trying to bring Flash to the masses (and you can see that by taking a look at all the crap Flash sites out there)...and this can be good on their marketing side, but the web is suffering real cheep quality, because it's now too easy to build sites.
This is wrong.
If someone get's paid to do a site, it should mean he's professionally capable of doing it.

And I don't think this is a childish way of thinking, this is a fact.

Ascanio.

[98svt]

Well, last I checked, EVERYONE has the right to learn new media. You DO NOT have the right to specify who can and who can not.
As far as a professional, I know how to use Flash, I was referring to the designers that are professionals but decide they want to "break" into a new form of media for the web.
Your annoyed?
That's crazy. First off, this is my 3rd post, the previous two were short. If you are annoyed by two (3 total) posts, then I think you need to spend more time developing and creating then hanging around here "getting annoyed" by a few posts. Just like your (ignorant) opinion on who should be allowed to capitalize on Flash's capabilites, this is my opinion. (maybe just as ignorant as yours)
If someone wants to buy Flash, then yes, they are responsible for learning it. But you can not pick and choose who should be able to use the software.
When I opened Flash 4, I was intimidated to say the least, but I stuck with it and learned as I went. I didn't attend any fancy "Flash School" or go to any Fancy Flash Seminars, I bought books, read articles, tutorials and anything Flash related as I could find.

Ok, I'm dun

Mike

[Ask The Geezer]

Ya, I agree with that. If it weren't for the fact that everybody with a paycheck can buy Flash, it would be so expensive for the few professionals who would want to use it that most couldn't afford it anyway. Make no mistake, the bottom line for any multi-million dollar company is going to be in black, no matter what they have to do to keep it there. And when you get down to it, Flash is the lower end software for making animated media. The hi-end ones start at around $35K

That kind of thinking by too many people, "it's (actually it should be) a tool for professionals, and no, it should not be intended for everybody", would have kept the WWW in the stone age and it would have died out long ago. Judge anothers attempt at a website all you want, nobody made you click on the link, and nobody is telling you you have to stay. Satisfaction is only a click away.

[JediKnight2]

I personally have not tried MX200WHore yet...BUT I am very disturbed by not being able to open Flash5 files. This type of issue is EXACLTY why when I write a contract with a company I guarantee the site for the current version player and current version browsers. I cannot help what MM does in the future with their player...I can only protect myself from that. In addition, I find it disturbing that MM HAS NEVER released an update for bugs in Flash..we had to HOUND them for a FreeHand MXa release. NO SOFTWARE is perfect, just fix it and then we can move on...plain and simple...

[FPChris]

JediKnight2... good point about your contract. A thought I haven't
really dreamed could happen until lately.

Chris

[MikeDowney]

Originally posted by JediKnight2
In addition, I find it disturbing that MM HAS NEVER released an update for bugs in Flash..we had to HOUND them for a FreeHand MXa release.

Not true. There was an updater for Flash 4 (4.0a) and there was an updater (5.0a) for Flash 5. UltraDev 4 and Dreamweaver 4 had an updater, Dreamweaver MX had an updater (6.1). Freehand 11 had an updater and Freehand MX has an updater that comes w/ Studio MX 2004. ColdFusion MX had an updater. Fontographer had an updater (that takes me back). I'm sure there were others that I don't remember.

Point is, if there are a significant number of bugs that slipped through the beta process (which happens with just about every piece of software put on the market) that are critical, you can count on us to react as we have in the past.

Also, please remember that "Bugs" are different than new features that people don't like or old features/functionalities that people miss. That's a different subject than bugs that will also be addressed.

Thanks,
MD

[keyone.it]

98svt, we clearly misunderstood each other.
When I say PROFESSIONAL KNOWLEDGE I don't mean that it has to come from training and schools only.
I know what self-training and playing around for too long is..and this is one of the best ways to learn, if you have the time (like I did for so many years..
99% of my computer skills are self gained.)

I'm sorry, the problem is I didn't express my self correctly.

When I say "not everybody" I mean "not without serious work".
Obviously everybody could learn how to use a tool, but not anybody has the time/will to do it.

What disturbs me is that "jerks" (in the sense of ignorant users - in the sense that they ignore how to use the software, nor how to build a site correctly) can easily build fancy applications with no sweat whatsoever. I know, the word "jerks" is wrong.
But the fact is that now many people can think they have become flash masters (and get paid as if they were) without even knowing how to manage a textField() object, or how to design a usable project.

I'm sorry for my bad explanations, and for my limited patience.. we're all stressed here.

Cheers.
Ascanio.

[JediKnight2]

No...they didn’t fix any bugs in the PC version of Flash 4 or 5...they fixed them in the subsequent releases. Same thing with FreeHand 9, 10 and MX...never released an update..just an UPGRADE. There is a difference. MM can defend themselves all day long till the sun goes down...FACT...WE, the web developers, NOT MM made their apps what they are today. Flash would not be what it is today without people building with it. MM's customer care has plummeted to a chilling attitude and the marketing department is digging the hole even deeper. I just want MM to fix its software when it needs it in the form of an UPDATE not an UPGRADE. I have used Flash since v.4 first came out..and I will continue to use it, but I am NOT a happy customer right now....Heck even M$oft releases updates to fix their junk..

[FPChris]

Jedi, I couldn't agree more. I dought the negative tone that most
of us express would be riding this high if we had past reassurance
that new and old bugs got patched.

This along with MM constant need to alter or remove key
functionality in each new release.

Make additions and improvements but stop screwing with my workflow.

If I buy a new car that has a bent wheel and broken headlight
I shouldn't have to by new car just get the wheel fixed and
still find the new car also has the very same broken headlight.

The new model car also has the steering wheel moved to the other
side of the car, the radio is now in the backseat and clock in
in the trunk. Hey it still drives and the radio still plays,
what's the problem? Is it really so bad to pull over when ever
you need to check the time?

I appreciate Mike answering our questions but
that's how I feel currently about Flash.

Chris

[98svt]

I just don't understand why it is so bad that any "jerk" has the capability to build a complex website. This field is already competitive, evryone in this field understands that. 1000's of websites go live everyday, no single person or team for that matter can get every available design project, it's just not feasable.
If components allow "jerks" to create with little effort, then so be it.
No one visits a site whether flash or any other media gives two cents of a damn what type of education the designer or team has that created it. They just like the site, plain and simple. The internet gives everyone the same opportunity to be what they want to be. Try landing a design job in Tokyo Japan if you Live in Detroit! Well, odds are that you won't.
Why be upset? Why not use it to lessen the time it taks to finish a project?
None of it makes any sense to me. If I can drag something to the stage that would have taken me two hours to do, I'm going to do it. Screw ethics, nowadays it's all about quality and turnover.
Do you honestly think I take the time to do some silly text effect for a client in Flash when I can do it in 20 seconds in Swish and import it into flash? Productivity, it makes more sense to get a quality job done in less time. Why beat your head against the wall creating something as stupid as a text effect in flash when you can do it in 20 seconds in another app?
Stupid, swallow your pride and take the easy road.
Nevermind, I would rather take weeks on a silly project then get it completed in a few days. Makes more sense to do 2 jobs a month then to do do 6 with the same quality.

Mike

[FPChris]

I agree Mike(98svt). I've used component in C++ for years
and they are relied on life saving/time saving features.
I welcome this to Flash and well as the ability to code them.

I only wish that clicking a component on stage then hitting F1
would bring up context help for that component's methods.
I don't know the names for all the components and
tracking them down in the help files is currently painful.

Chris

[98svt]

Last post, then i'm moving on like everyone else should!
I don't mean to "piss on anyone's cheerios" or make anyone upset. But the days of the "Flash Clique" or over and done with. Anyone can buy it, anyone can use it.
So "old school" flash users need to stop being so naive and wise up to the fact that instead of flash being a tool for a select few has become a tool for the masses.
Sounds like i'm preaching!

Later!
Mike
Oh yea, quick Plug......
Check out Swiftdev Swift3D Developers Resource

[Ask The Geezer]

This is just history repeating itself. The same thing happened when Frontpage 98 came out. Bunch of homemade looking sites started appearing, cause everyone could afford a WYSIWYG editor. Now flash is an accepted media online and the program is affordable, to say nothing of Swish or older versions of Flash. So what? The internet is not Wall Street or Fifth Avenue, it's the worlds largest open Flea Market. Get use to it.