Grrrr ...Congress Expands FBI Spying Power

**phreakdevil** · 11-26-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by aversion
I think that's a good point. People are so apathetic these days, there hasn't been a genuine movement since the 60s where people really set out to change something, people who realy cared about something, were passionate.

OK, did u see the anti-war (Irak) protests around the world? im not sure if thats the kind of movement your talking about but here (Spain) it was BIG, and i think pretty much worldwide too,

**webcorps** · 11-26-2003, 06:12 PM

In response to Marknovak - yes, yes and no - the last one is not mutually exclusive(see av's post on Mugabe). I have an idea. Find me one leader that negates my view on this matter. I know I havent found one as of yet..

**aversion** · 11-26-2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by phreakdevil
OK, did u see the anti-war (Irak) protests around the world? im not sure if thats the kind of movement your talking about but here (Spain) it was BIG, and i think pretty much worldwide too,

it was big, and it was impressive, i was at some big demos myself, and it is the kind of thing I'm talking about. But there is still no 'movement' no sense of revolution (not meant in a literal sense).

the events of the past few days in georgia indicate what i'm talking about, the power of the people to change things. It doesn't have to be a government, I'm not suggesting we stage a 'velvet' coup against blair, but that's the best illustration of it.

It's partly the age we live in, we're all fat and content beyond the dreams of our ancestors, we all think we know best, we're all cynical, blah blah... ignore me, it's time to get out of the office.

**phacker** · 11-26-2003, 06:18 PM

Phreakdevil, I am an old hippy...in my fifties. I know what you mean most people will agree with anything that promises them security, be it financial or personal. Just look at the Medicare Bill that just passed. Most of the current members of AARP won't be alive when this thing kills Medicare in 5 to 6 years. But it might help them now. Who cares what happens to the people left standing after they are gone.

I guess I am just a "bleeding heart". Not a "liberal", not a "conservative"...just a "bleeding heart", that think's of the world and the possible future.

**webcorps** · 11-26-2003, 06:21 PM

not to get off the subject, but i just saw dancing saddam and osama dolls on the news...i guess this completes the set of fools...

**phacker** · 11-26-2003, 06:24 PM

Yeah, maybe someone could come up with bobble head sets and we could put a little threesome on all our dashboards.

**webcorps** · 11-26-2003, 06:25 PM

actually the dolls bobble a little dance, so with a little duct tape...

**phacker** · 11-26-2003, 06:34 PM

Aversion, what happenned in Georgia gives me hope. But I don't think anything like that could happen here. Not right now, but if things get desperate enough, and enough people lose everything and are hungry...it could be in the future. But right now in the states, too many have it easy and good, while the rest are scrambling. It takes desperation to do something like that.

**phreakdevil** · 11-26-2003, 06:41 PM

Ok, yeah got your point, i know what u mean, and i agree, i guess it has to do with the way society was back then, and the way it is right now, different needs, different education, blah blah blah, it seems right now that as long as there is a good economy and u dont get in war or something nothing will happen/change in 1st world countrys.

But i do think that a lot of countrys are still having a very revolutionary society, from the top of my head: Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia, Brazil (i think lula represents a big change for them) Georgia, and Spain is working a lot on the women part in society, a lot of campaigns against underpaid women, trying to fight the abuse against them, not as hard as they should and very late IMO, i think last year around 100 died killed by their husbands, but they are doing it, and im sure there are more but i cant remember right now, i will post them if i do.

**aversion** · 11-26-2003, 06:45 PM

spekaing of Venezuela, anyone see that documentary on Chavez and the coup that took place? It's amazing stuff.

**phacker** · 11-26-2003, 06:46 PM

"back then"....you make me feel like an antique. I've never lost my ideals. Suffered for it, not making as much as some of my contemporaries that did, but know that I can look myself in the face in the mirror and not cringe...except for the wrinkles. I always lived by the rule "Do no harm." Wish our government would do that too.

**phreakdevil** · 11-26-2003, 06:55 PM

spekaing of Venezuela, anyone see that documentary on Chavez and the coup that took place? It's amazing stuff.

Ok now u have to tell me something, is it really so Chavez-sided as ppl claim? because i was there when it happened, and i came to live here a few months later, and all i get from that doc is that it puts chavez like the ppl love him there, and thats not entirely truth, i havent seen it so i cant really talk.

"back then"....you make me feel like an antique. I've never lost my ideals. Suffered for it, not making as much as some of my contemporaries that did, but know what I can look myself in the face in the mirror and not cringe...except for the wrinkles. I always lived by the rule "Do no harm." Wish our government would do that too.

He he, sorry about that man, i didnt meant it like that, and i think i am a "bleeding heart" too, and for now (im almost 26) i can see myself in the mirror like that.

**phacker** · 11-26-2003, 06:55 PM

Phreakdevil, different needs...man only really needs a few things to survive (food, shelter and clothing). Different education, I'll have to agree...doesn't seem like a lot of the young people have read the reading lists, or they've been shortened (the reading lists, not the young people). Makes me wonder about all the glowing resumes out there.

Hey my generation wanted to arrest everyone over 35. Would hate to see that attitude again, especially since I am well over that age. But I would love to see the "bottom line" take a "back seat".

Peace and Love!

**atRax** · 11-26-2003, 07:13 PM

Kinda kool ... I didnt know my thread would go taht far

**aversion** · 11-26-2003, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by phreakdevil
Ok now u have to tell me something, is it really so Chavez-sided as ppl claim? because i was there when it happened, and i came to live here a few months later, and all i get from that doc is that it puts chavez like the ppl love him there, and thats not entirely truth, i havent seen it so i cant really talk.

seek it out, I don't know what the domestic politics are like, I only got as far as panama, so i can't say whether it's misrepresenting him or not. There was definitely a lot of working classes vs the professional/business classes going on, which tallies with what I've read about him, that he wanted to redistribute the wealth from oil etc.

the overall impression of the documentary is fascinating though, it's a real anatomy of a coup (or two) the cameras seemed to be unrestricted around both camps, though the focus was on chavez because they were there to make a documentary about him, but you can't fake the passion that was shown on both sides.

one interesting part of the doc was after the government had gotten back into the palace and were trying to track down chavez, some soldiers loyal to the govt called them from an island base somewhere saying that he was there and people went off to get him. Shortly after the soldiers called back and told the minister that an american plane had landed with 'civilians' in it, eventually they were turned away by soldiers loyal to chavez but the implication was that the CIA had arrived to spirit him away.

**phacker** · 11-26-2003, 08:09 PM

Venezuela is the fifth largest oil exporter in the world, and supplies about 13% of daily oil imports into the US.

**phreakdevil** · 11-26-2003, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by aversion
seek it out, I don't know what the domestic politics are like, I only got as far as panama, so i can't say whether it's misrepresenting him or not. There was definitely a lot of working classes vs the professional/business classes going on, which tallies with what I've read about him, that he wanted to redistribute the wealth from oil etc.

Yeah thats the center of the problem right there, that hes very agressive with professional/business ppl, also with foreigners to the point where he says that he wants foreign ppl to leave Vzla, (in a country that has received ppl from the day it was born) and they were the ones that built the country 50 - 40 years ago when europeans went to Vzla, and he puts a lot of anger on the ppl against them as well, encouraging them to take some extreme (dangerous) actions, causing big business to close, (like GM, FORD, etc) and loosing foreign investment as well.

the overall impression of the documentary is fascinating though, it's a real anatomy of a coup (or two)

Yeah, prob. 2, thats a very important point on the story, some ppl say that he knew about it and used that to finish once and for all the oposition he had in Vzla, dunno how truth that is.

one interesting part of the doc was after the government had gotten back into the palace and were trying to track down chavez, some soldiers loyal to the govt called them from an island base somewhere saying that he was there and people went off to get him. Shortly after the soldiers called back and told the minister that an american plane had landed with 'civilians' in it, eventually they were turned away by soldiers loyal to chavez but the implication was that the CIA had arrived to spirit him away.

Yeah, thats truth, his personal guard stayed loyal to him, and a lot of militars did, which is basically why this "cup" didnt work out, about the CIA, that was on the media for a few days right after the hole thing ended, and ive asked very important (military/politics) ppl and they said that it was confirmed, the US government was behind that the hole time, they sent a plane that was supposed to take Chavez anywere he wanted, and it figures, when u have a country that, as phacker said, is on the top 5 oil exporters in the world, that makes more and more sense, and hes a declared anti-American, after the cup he asked the US government to stay out of his bussiness and to try and support democracy (this being said because the US gov. aproved and congratulated the new "cup" government.

Please dont think im totally against Chavez, or with him, o dont think hes the solution, but after 30 years of horrible corruption, and big poverty, when we should be rich p/c due to oil income, u hope for a change, and i wont deny it he had me for a few weeks, not totally, but i wanted things to change there.

I know that untill we have learned the lesson Chavez wont leave, untill ppl, business man, get a conciense and dont underpaid the ppl so much, things wont change, so i guess is just something we need right now to learn, and another point to consider is that the gov. that was created for the 3 days that the cup lasted, was mainly dinousaurs from the old corrupted Gov. partyes, so i dont think anybody would put up with that.

I have to go to sleep now, i will def. dig the doc., if u have any questions do ask, i could go on about there are a lot of other things to consider like the HUGE part that the media took against chavez, i think a very big % of everything that happened was because of them.

***gerbick*** · 11-26-2003, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by aversion
i searched for 'history of terrorism in america' and didn't find much that talked about incidents before 1970, though i remember finding out some after 9/11, they involved croats or serbs, don't remember which. I'll keep looking.

A bomb went off on Wall Street in the 1930's to show how upset they were about the Great Depression.

They considered that an act of terrorism.

**phacker** · 11-26-2003, 09:49 PM

As to the history of terrorism in the US, you may find this interesting.

http://www.easternstudiesdatabase.co...howPictures=No

Thread: Grrrr ...Congress Expands FBI Spying Power

Thread Tools

Display

Posting Permissions