working class or middle class?

[baxxy]

Hi
I am hoping someone can shed some light and help with an argument i am having with a friend.

What is the difference between someone who is working class and someone who is middle class and where do you draw the line?

This is mainly for people in the UK as i don't know if the terms are different in other countries....

cheers guys

[Covenent]

I understand the two terms to be interchangeable for the most part, perhap's working class suggesting the some where inbetween middle and low class.

[PAlexC]

'working class' and 'middle class' in the states can be euphamisms for a number of things. like 'blue collar' and 'white collar'.

Typically, here, you could call working class someone who just squeaks by. They're not broke, but live on a tight budget and don't have much if any disposable income. They don't need for anything, have food, shelter, heat, basic neccesities, but can't afford any luxuries.

Middle class folks typically aren't wealthy, but can afford themselves a little bit of extra comfort, that expensive bike Billy wants for christmas or a yearly family vacation to Disney World. They too, are on a budget, but not as stringently, and if someone loses their job they're not SOL.

[discs79]

Working class is normally manual labour - i.e. plumber, builder, sparky

Middle class would be skilled labour - i.e. Doctor, Writer, Teacher

That’s kind of a guide line, I think there is a list somewhere that can tell you what bracket you fall in.

Its not that important anymore, I think they still use a similar guide lines to tell which TAX bracket you are in. i.e. a doctor pays more tax than a Labourer.

[defuzz]

mostly middle class, to me means people who are profesionals, doctors, teachers, managers (and of course their family by association).

Working class is people who are "unskilled labour". Of course, many "unskilled jobs" are skilled, such as builders etc. but they are still working class.


Here in Britain I don't think we refer to a low class, but we do refer to "lower classes" eg people lower than someone else.


Its a funny system with no real rules, for instance I'm blatantly middle class, my dad was a head teacher so through him it made me middle class. Even if I became an unemployed bum I would probably still be middle class because of my upbrining and background.


As for upper class, thats posh folk.

[robbmcaulay]

So what is a web designer?

[defuzz]

NB, tax is nothing to do with occupation, its income. SO a labourer earning £18k would pay as much tax as a junior Doctor earning the same.

I hate Tax :-( , and national bloody insurance payments

[PAlexC]

So a plumber can't be middle class? Even if he owns his own business and does well at it?

It's a popular misconception that a person's job determines their class. It's about income.

[nordberg]

Originally posted by PAlexC
So a plumber can't be middle class? Even if he owns his own business and does well at it?

It's a popular misconception that a person's job determines their class. It's about income.

true, it is about income. but as soon as that guy starts his own business, he becomes an entrepreneur, not a plumber. busniess owners are typically middle class - the guys that work for the plumbing baron would be working class....

[PAlexC]

But by trade, a plumber. For instance, there's a guy who services the whole town where my parents live. The business is just him and his son, and he does quite well.

Entrepenuer? Or freelance plumber?

Then what would you classify Robert DeNiro's character in Brazil as?

[swampy]

Definition: [n] a social class comprising those who do manual labor or work for wages; "there is a shortage of skilled labor in this field"
[adj] of those who work for wages especially manual or industrial laborers; "party of the propertyless proletariat"- G.B.Shaw
[adj] working for hourly wages rather than fixed (e.g. annual) salaries; "working-class occupations include manual as well as industrial labor"


Synonyms: blue-collar, labor, labour, low-class, lower-class, proletariat, propertyless, wage-earning

See Also: class, labor force, labor pool, prole, proletarian, social class, socio-economic class, worker

[japangreg]

Not in the UK, but here's my take on it:

Working class refers to anyone who has to work for a living. The obvious thought process here is that if there is a working class, there must be a non-working class.

Middle class is something more relative, as they are the segment of society that falls between the low and high class. They are really those that are not poor, but not rich.

[defuzz]

Originally posted by PAlexC
So a plumber can't be middle class? Even if he owns his own business and does well at it?

It's a popular misconception that a person's job determines their class. It's about income.

thats the entire point about class, at least here in Britain, there are no hard and fast rules, income is irrelevant, its about appearances and opinions.


If you're a posh bint, the plumber is working class.

If the plumber owns his own company and drives a BMW, hes middle class, if he drives a white transit all the time, hes still working class.

What is working class to me might be middle class to someone else.



As for web designers, almost certainly middle class I think. Unless you only design geocities pages!! in which case you are probably 12 and have not yet defined yourself beyond your parent's class.!!!

[Markp.com]

Originally posted by japangreg
The obvious thought process here is that if there is a working class, there must be a non-working class.

Yup... they are called Dole Scum

[aversion]

there used to be pretty hard and fast rules about classes in england, mainly based on your family background and subsequent income, which was always related, it almost a caste system.

Nowadays there's a lot of job mobility, people from working class families can easily find themselves in white collar jobs or higher, and just because your parents were middle class and above doesn't mean you will find a middle class and above job.

I think the whole system is fairly redundant now. There are no real barriers to mobility within the job market based on class, it used to be for example that only people speaking received pronounciation could get onto television or radio, but now the airwaves are awash with regional accents. Go to any london brokerage and you'll find that most of the traders are from middle or lower class backgrounds. The 'old boy network' isn't anywhere near as influential as it used to be.

[amodeluniverso]

I don't consider myself working class and I own a plumbing company.