ADOBE + MACROMEDIA = ONE ---What do you think about this??

[Abelius]

Well, apologies to the fact I thought he was a moderator...

And yes, he is entitled to tell his opinion, of course.

But I don't think it's the first time he hears that Photoshop has a "terrible" interface...

[PAlexC]

Please, let's not get him started on Flash's XML capabilities.

[Ask The Geezer]

Well, apologies to the fact I thought he was a moderator...

He is a Moderator here at FK. But this is the CL, which he doesn't moderate. Even if he did, he can still say what he thinks.

[EVPohovich]

Yeah, Mods suck.....oh wait.....erm.

I happen to like the Photoshop interface and some of the drawing elements in Flash. I think it would be interesting to see a combination of the two, but only if it were completely controlable. Like you could turn off the "Flash correction" when you didn't want it. Just my .02

[gerbick]

Originally posted by Abelius
Well, apologies to the fact I thought he was a moderator...

And yes, he is entitled to tell his opinion, of course.

But I don't think it's the first time he hears that Photoshop has a "terrible" interface...

When being compared, albeit implicitly to Flash MX 2004, yes... this is the very first time I've heard about Photoshop has a terrible interface.

I'm sorry that it seems to offend you; however there's no way in the world I'm going to say that Flash's interface does not get into my way. Why in the world doesn't my Library Palette stay there by default? Photoshop remembered where/what I had opened the last time. Photoshop's interface is way simple... out of the way.

Flash's is in the way of what I want to do. Period. And that's with a Flash that I've been using for quite a while. Want to hear who else I think has a horrible interface? Adobe Premiere and Macromedia Director. They both could be streamlined to a point where it'd make sense... sorta like Combustion does.

But Flash, it's a necessary evil. I use it. I just don't enjoy it.

And for the record, I moderate the 3D, Swift3D, News, and the Arena. Not one single Flash forum. I've also moderated the Coffee Lounge and Macintosh for a while too... but when better mods came in to moderate it - SJT is a mac-god, and the current crew for the CL is more balanced than I am - I stepped aside. But I've helped in just about each forum here at FK one time or another.

But yeah... I seriously hate the Flash interface, drawing tools, and timeline. But it's what popular at the moment.

And it's XML capabilities are about as subpar as you can get. I've used and interpreted XML with BASIC better than Flash.

I can't help it if people love it's interface. I just don't.

[jAQUAN]

doesnt anyone remember super-paint? Comps are fast enough now-a-days. How 'bout it adobe? Photostrator?

[PAlexC]

Originally posted by gerbick
Why in the world doesn't my Library Palette stay there by default?

Lawsuits and patents. Remember all that unpleasantness between Adobe and MM a few years ago? That's why the way Flash handles palettes sucks.

Been in and out of .as and .fla files all day, and using the debugger at the same time.

Indeed, MX2004's interface sucks if you only have 1 monitor.

[indivision]

This is big news indeed. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. I do like the idea of consolidating the various applications I use on a day-to-day basis and making best use of talent from both companies. But, I hope flash doesn't become too Adobeish. Adobe interfaces are not intuitive and are way too hot-key dependent. It's simply lazy development. I shouldnt have to know 30 different ctrl-alt-key combinations in order to use the product! So, Adobe, be warned!

Anyway, I'm suprised that the anti-Microsoft crowd isn't sounding out about concerns of a monopoly on design applications.

[jAQUAN]

Originally posted by PAlexC
Lawsuits and patents. Remember all that unpleasantness between Adobe and MM a few years ago? That's why the way Flash handles palettes sucks.

Been in and out of .as and .fla files all day, and using the debugger at the same time.

Indeed, MX2004's interface sucks if you only have 1 monitor.

That was because of palette docking, not preferences. I hate that the library insists on coming up under the color palette no matter what. And god help you if your using one monitor.

Too command key dependant? Ya' know there are still some apps out there built for professionals with deadlines (haha, AI just crashed on one of the Mac guys as I'm typing this) and for those of us hell bent on reducing mouse clicks, key commands are the way to go until scripting is ubiquitous.

[gerbick]

I'm on my PC now... Flash just gave me the beachball o' death... 4th time today. Works fine on the PC though...

[Ask The Geezer]

Ya' know there are still some apps out there built for professionals with deadlines

But ya know, 9 out of 10 flash boxes are sold to knuckleheads who still hunt and peck. You alienate them, you lose sales.

[indivision]

Originally posted by jAQUAN
Too command key dependant? Ya' know there are still some apps out there built for professionals with deadlines (haha, AI just crashed on one of the Mac guys as I'm typing this) and for those of us hell bent on reducing mouse clicks, key commands are the way to go until scripting is ubiquitous.

It should have both. A GUI for all important functionality as well as customizable key commands for everything. As it stands, many Adobe products have functionality that is ONLY accessable through key commands. To further that problem, you really have to dig to find out what the key commands are. To me, that is sloppy development. The old key-commands dont need to go anywhere. There just needs to be less cryptic ways to access the same functionality.

Macromedia has been very good at integrating all functionality in a consistent, easily digestible way. I hope it doesn't change.

[admedia]

pointless blathering: i think they both have their ups and downs i agree with most of what is being said here on both sides...

I just wanted to ask, cause I know for a fact I am not the only one in Flash MX who had the verticle scrollbar disappear on my timeline.. what hell was that all about?

[indivision]

Ive had that happen too. Not sure what causes it.

Probably the reason Adobe doesn't have robust interfaces and why Macromedia products aren't as stable. More things to break.

[gerbick]

mind you, I'm not a John Dvorak fan at the least. he's like the Jim O'Reilly of the geek world. annoying.

but he has an interesting spin - one that's been touched upon in this thread plenty of times actually - about why Adobe bought Macromedia...

keyword? Microsoft.

[Ask The Geezer]

Well, that's a pretty damned gloomy outlook for flash.

"It's assumed that Adobe will redesign the interfaces of key Macromedia products to match its own and then discard most of the rest of Macromedia..."

[yasunobu13]

Originally posted by gerbick
mind you, I'm not a John Dvorak fan at the least. he's like the Jim O'Reilly of the geek world. annoying.

but he has an interesting spin - one that's been touched upon in this thread plenty of times actually - about why Adobe bought Macromedia...

keyword? Microsoft.

No no no, it was because of 9/11

"After 9/11, we both realised that being enemies didn't make sense," Adobe CEO Bruce Chizen said in a conference call on Monday, referring to his discussions with Macromedia's then-CEO Rob Burgess. "We were not longer competing."

link

[gerbick]

omfg. Sept. 11 is now being used as a merger ploy!?

Damn.

[Frets]

Dvorak is a pompus bag of hot air. I only read him when I need a good laugh.

His sumation of what flash is really tells you how much he really knows about content and rich media applications

Also the company has single-handedly popularized (for good or evil, you choose) Flash! Flash is the software that powers those annoying web animations.

This is the same man who cannonized windows media format for sending javascript to the browser.

[PAlexC]

I take it you guys didn't hear what Tim Bray said.

Seems straightforward to me. Adobe is in at the center of print production (PhotoShop & friends, InDesign, PDF), while Macromedia’s DreamWeaver is the single most important Web-design product. Dave Shea says this might be about Flash, but let me suggest exactly the opposite: if you’re hitching your career to Flash, it might be a good time to look at alternatives. Why’s that? Because, near as I can tell, Macromedia has never made any serious money with Flash. They’ve accomplished one of the great, heroic, marketing coups of all time, getting the plug-in onto substantially every desktop on the planet; and this bought them, uh, what exactly? They sell authoring tools, but seriously, how many Flash designers does the world need? Anyhow, most of the good things you can do with Flash, you can do about as well with DHTML (oops that’s called AJAX now) and your “back” button still works. I guess there’s no reason to actually shut Flash down, the tool revenue must about cover the engineering costs.

Yeah, $3.4 Bn for Dreamweaver my a**. So, how pervasive are applets these days Tim?