ADOBE + MACROMEDIA = ONE ---What do you think about this??

[indivision]

Originally posted by PAlexC
I take it you guys didn't hear what Tim Bray said.



Yeah, $3.4 Bn for Dreamweaver my a**. So, how pervasive are applets these days Tim?

lol. at least he was good enough to post some of the responses to the article. those were hilarious.

i think flash is/was heading for great and larger things. the only possible thing i could think of that could mess it up is a botched merger. i hope adobe doesn't botch it.

i dont think they bought mm because of microsoft. seems like a crackpot theory. i think they bought them because of $$$. if anything, they are going to become more like microsoft. i hope the lack of competition doesn't harm development.

[brutfood]

Originally posted by PAlexC
I take it you guys didn't hear what Tim Bray said.

omg! Tim has appended a fragment from a previous reply I made regarding his, um, article.

“I think it's all rubbish of course.” -Daniel Freeman.

(That's me)

Ok Tim Bray! You want a more specific argument. Go to my website, and tell me how feasible it would be to port any of my Central applications (written in Flash) to Ajax? It can't be done. Why would I want to go to the trouble of fiddling around making sure it copes with the idiosyncrasies of every browser?

I guess you're not a programmer Tim.

Getting Flash onto substantially every desktop on the planet is indeed a meritorious marketing coup. It is a tremendous asset for Adobe, for what is to happen next. You have to think bigger than the browser or desktop - because that's what Adobe are doing.

I'm not going to port my applications to ajax, but I am writing services that can accessed via clients on the desktop, hand-held and mobile phone. All working seamlessly together.

Mac Faithful? - I'm a pragmatist Tim. I'm using Flash because it is fit for purpose. If you don't understand the technological and implementation issues - you'll have to take my word for it.

[Boombanguk]

DHTML? haha, anyway

seems like what i said about interfaces kicked off something, so here's my 3 cents worth....

What adobe should do with Flash

1) make it more compatible with adobe products especially illustrator and photoshop (and visa versa)
2)um..thats about it

what they shouldn't do

1) DO NOT MESS WITH THE INTERFACE (unless they have to tweak it slightly to add some cool new functions)
2) DO NOT INCREASE THE FILE SIZE OF THE PLAYER TOO MUCH

Before Flash there was what? there was nothing thats what.......there was html....and um....well that was about it, people **itch and moan about Flash, but really without it, what would we have? a bunch of static (lets not mention DHTML again)boring, uninteresting websites..html may of been the engine that drove the web, but flash was the attraction that got everyone buying tickets to the show.

speaking as one of those crazy people who has hitched his career to Flash, this situation doesn't have to end badly, adobe just had to be mindfull, that people like Flash because its installed on most of the planets PC's and its easy to develop cool looking sites/games/apps for, its as simple as that. If they remember that with whatever they next do with Flash, then everything will be cool.

[jAQUAN]

actually what I'm most excited about is the pasteboard compatibility. No more wicked conversions!

[Ask The Geezer]

Getting Flash onto substantially every desktop on the planet is indeed a meritorious marketing coup.

You can thank Microsoft for that.

[gerbick]

Originally posted by brutfood
omg! Tim has appended a fragment from a previous reply I made regarding his, um, article.

“I think it's all rubbish of course.” -Daniel Freeman.

(That's me)

He quoted you without your knowledge or approval?

[indivision]

Originally posted by jAQUAN
actually what I'm most excited about is the pasteboard compatibility. No more wicked conversions!

indeed. and maybe importing psd's directly into flash, retaining layer structures, names and flattened layer effects. a lot of good could come out of this.

i would just be more comfortable if it was macromedia that bought adobe. when i think of a merger, i picture some guy of stature from the buying company walking around, telling the new company how things are going to be. maybe it's not like that.

[The_e-Tahn]

man I've read a few pages here and pretty much anything I'd say has been said...
When I first heard the news, I was devestated-- I figured that Adobe's more for the documents and movies and pictures, whereas Macromedia's more for vectors and websites/design. I liked them just as they were, but... Some good (no worries about conversions) would be a definite good thing. All I can say is I reallllly hope that they leave Flash the way it is (AS and drawing) and don't mess up dreamweaver either.... And they can continue with PS and Illustrator, whatever-- those are their products-- I just hope they keep the same programming staff as MM had and would only do macromediaey things for MM's past products.

now, wouldn't it be funny if Adobe bought Microsoft?

[Ask The Geezer]

Originally posted by The_e-Tahn
now, wouldn't it be funny if Adobe bought Microsoft?

Now wouldn't it be funny if Microsoft bought France?

[brutfood]

Originally posted by gerbick
He quoted you without your knowledge or approval?

Yes. But that's the nature of the internet. And he did get my name right

This is an opportune time for FUD attacks. During the regulatory approval period, Adobe/Macromedia are restricted about what they can say about the future.

Tim took the statement from a few lines I wrote urging the new company to put an end to speculation and make some clear, detailed and inspirational statements about its future direction.

[Frets]

It simply amazes me how far people will go out of thier way to mock flash when they have nothing to comapare it to.

[brutfood]

Originally posted by Frets
It simply amazes me how far people will go out of thier way to mock flash when they have nothing to comapare it to.

Sun Java, or Microsoft Avalon.

[Frets]

Not only product developers but end user/developers.

[Bobby Hill]

People who know nothing or very little about Flash should not mock its powerful abilities. As I have said before, Adobe had their chance to have Flash. I see this corporate buyout as nothing other than Adobe to get their hands on Flash and to use what MM created to improve Adobe's products. Thus reaping greater profits for Adobe. I know there are possiblities from this as other have stated here, but how will Adobe screw up Flash or will they? I seriously doubt that Adobe is going to kill Flash at all. After all Adobe has used Flash content on their site, they have also been exporting to the swf format in their programs. So, if they had no interest in Flash why do all this?

[gerbick]

Flash is nothing more than a presentational layer... nothing more. It has some basic scripting abilities; but nothing like Java.

But Java... well, it keeps screwing up. Java3D for instance... it was in beta when I actually still cared... so perhaps 1999 or so. It's still in beta. And still sucks.

Oh well. At least Sun won their suit with Microsoft. That's a claim to fame. But to compare Flash to Java... that's actually quite a bit of disgrace to Java.

But Java, to me, is for app dev. Not fancy graphics - Processing excepted

[argonauta]

Originally posted by gerbick
But Java, to me, is for app dev. Not fancy graphics - Processing excepted

Some of those dudes that had sites dedicated to actionscript visual experiments suddenly switch to processing. I don't know if it's easier, but it seems more powerfull.

[brutfood]

Originally posted by gerbick
Flash is nothing more than a presentational layer... nothing more. It has some basic scripting abilities; but nothing like Java.

I disagree. But Flash, to me, is for app dev. Not fancy graphics

[Frets]

Flash,,,,
Streaming video.
Flash quicktime, Real, windows media
flash wins... Runs everywhere runs better.

Rich Internet applications...
Flash vs ?
Mobile apps
Flash vs ?


dhtml vs flash?
please

[PAlexC]

Originally posted by gerbick
Flash is nothing more than a presentational layer... nothing more. It has some basic scripting abilities; but nothing like Java.

Eh, it could compete with Java on apps of lesser importance/complication. But mostly I agree, Java is a whole other level.

But Java... well, it keeps screwing up. Java3D for instance... it was in beta when I actually still cared... so perhaps 1999 or so. It's still in beta. And still sucks.

Here's one for you: Do you think Director/Shockwave could compete with Java? The overhead on the client side isn't that much different. I've been seeing some b*tchin' 3d in it lately, and we all know what you can do with the right Xtras.

As for DHTML (Ajax...whatever), it has it's place. I'd probably opt to use that on a high-traffic site that had to play to the widest audience possible.

[gerbick]

Originally posted by PAlexC
Here's one for you: Do you think Director/Shockwave could compete with Java? The overhead on the client side isn't that much different. I've been seeing some b*tchin' 3d in it lately, and we all know what you can do with the right Xtras.

With what? Shockwave3D or Processing? Either are great, the former hasn't been updated since 2000. Processing is just friggin' awesome. But I've been playing around with it for a while now... and before that, DBN - design by numbers.

Flash and 3D is a bit of a disappointment... pre-rendered stuff annoys me.

As for DHTML (Ajax...whatever), it has it's place. I'd probably opt to use that on a high-traffic site that had to play to the widest audience possible.

Until Musicman helped me, I couldn't reproduce a menu system I was working on that was supposed to read XML and parse as options in Flash, but could a lot of it via DHTML.

Ajax has its place.

But as far as delineating this from Adobe/Macromedia... I'll just say that people like Bray will defend his technology to the end mainly because he has too...