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Thread: ANSWERED AND CLOSED

  1. #1
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    His first proclamation: the lecture hall is now a "No SWISH Text Zone." (The audience begins to laugh in appreciation.) "Flying letters are like a cancer! They're starting to creep into TVs, movies, everything!"
    You can read more here:
    http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia...age_nov28.html
    He compares Swish to Mariah Carey, now that hurts.

    Check out his website: http://www.brendandawes.com
    Brendan is a new breed of digital designer. What he calls an 'Über Designer'

    I wonder what Brendan will make of Swish 2.0?
    http://swishzone.com/images/S2_screen.gif

    Comments please?


    Cheers, David.

    [Edited by David Michie on 12-04-2000 at 08:59 PM]

  2. #2
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    Oh, I forgot to mention, you can see the slides from his presentation here:

    http://www.brendandawes.com/headshop...f2klondon.html

    The 7th slide shows the Swish logo crossed-out like a no-smoking sign.

    Cheers, David.

  3. #3
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    At least there is a link to swishzone, so that people can go and see what he is talking about, and make up their own minds.

    I think his main point is not to go overboard with the effects, which I would agree with.

    On his site it says
    "Brendan is a new breed of digital designer. What he calls an 'Über Designer'. Combining code with graphic and interface design is part of this new design ethic. Through the use of innovative techniques and a myriad of tools including JavaScript, Flash, After Effects, Dreamweaver and Fireworks, he is helping to push the envelope of what is possible on the web and beyond."

    Nothing new in this! I have seen many sites that include swish, graphics, interfaces, etc, etc, here on the swish forum!

  4. #4
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    Well, many Swish sites do look very much alike...

    Swish in the old days was just for text effects, and because of this, it will take a while before Swish will get "accepted" by the designers as a professional tool, since making effects with Swish is so easy.

    wii

  5. #5
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    He is quite within his rights to criticize poor design
    and to suggest that people not go overboard with text
    effects. What annoys me is that he has used Swish
    by name in his presentation.

    He has deliberately associated Swish with poor design,
    and implies that Swish is a low-quality product.

    The Mariah Carey thing and crossed-out logo really has
    me fuming!

    Cheers, David.

  6. #6
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    yeah, that´s not fair to you David.

    from what I can see from the Swish 2.0 screenshot, you have a very nice looking interface that I´m sure will knock the socks out of everybody, including the people who used to critize Swish, specially for 40 dollars - that is truly amazing !

    wii

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by David Michie
    He compares Swish to Mariah Carey, now that hurts.
    ...
    Cheers, David.
    LOL...not to make light of the comments, but that was funny. I guess you're not a Mariah fan, David?

    I can understand where the emotions behind the writers sediments are coming from, because I agree that too many individuals feel they have the need to incorporate every effect that Swish is capable of performing in one 15 second movie. I have quite often expressed my opinion on this type of Swish abuse.

    However, there is a VERY bright side to this that seems to have been missed.

    If this has been included on the Macromedia web site, it is obvious that they are beginning to feel the heat, and in my opinion, are beginning to sweat a bit in fear of future profit losses.

    They are correct to do this. Swish is beginning to really grow up and I think is going to be a true contender to Flash.

    Personally, I feel this is a tacky business move by Macromedia. A company always looks bad when they sling mud at their competition, especially when they do so in a covert manner. What I mean is that Macromedia didn't make the comments, but they made a point to draw it to your attention.

    Real tacky, Macromedia.

  8. #8
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    Nah, its not Macromedia, they are just reporting events
    from FlashForward London (this week I think).

    I doubt anyone at MM is seriously concerned about Swish.
    They spend all their time worrying about Adobe!

    Cheers, David.

  9. #9
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    Hey, they're talking about you!!!!

    Nervous Macromedia????-
    I think you have an Aussie in your rearview,
    moving up fast!!


    Ha ha

    Greg


  10. #10
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    David, I couldn't resist sending him an email

    Hi Brendan,

    I thought it was unfair and unprofessional to single out swish in your criticism of bad design. Swish can do much more than mere text effects. There are many other products that produce swf text effects (and only text effects) e.g. FlaX, Wildform SWFX and FLASHtyper at Flashkit.com However, you seem to ignore this and focus your comments on Swish. WHY?

    I fully agree with your overall theme, but I think you showed poor judgement in only attacking Swish. The use of the logo was disgraceful.

    You web site clearly indicates that you believe in balance, of web design. You can do a complete web site in Flash (or Swish), but it is often much better to use the many other tools that are available, to achieve balance, and avoid going over the top.

    It is a pity your presentation did not reflect such balance.

  11. #11
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    David don't take what he's doing personally. Just think of it this way, he's bringing attention to Swish and that (in the end) will be great advertising. Some of the most famous people in the world have paid a lot of money for this type of advertising. I remember when people were trashing Madonna, and she was simply laughing all the way to the bank. If you think he has crossed the line and hurt Swish you could always sue him for slandering your product. On the bright side just the fact that Swish was mentioned on MM goes to show that you are making them worried and cutting into their profits! Last month on their forum someone asked if MM was going to make a product more like Swish (they called it an easier form of Flash) and I'm sure when MM read that it must have hurt them. Don't let them upset you, just come out with 2.0 as planned and soon they will be shaking in their Flashboots. You're doing a great job, and that's why they are picking on you. In the recording industry we see this all of the time. You've got over 200,000 happy customers on your side.

  12. #12
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    After reading the article, I can't help but think that the benifit of exposure, and the link to Swishzone, far outweigh any damage the comments made. It seems his problem is with overdoing animation in general, not just doing it with Swish.

    If Swish has done one thing successfully, it's bring the ability to create flash content to John Q. Public. It's easy, it's impactful,...and it's overused by people who aren't pros (or aren't pro's yet).

    What wasn't mentioned is what kind of sites this overuse most often occurs on. It seems to be smaller sites with less draw, and generally created by amateurs while they are learning (or at least that's what I see). The major sites tend to be built by people who have already been through their phase of "as many tricks as possible".

  13. #13
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    Having only been a member here for 4 weeks (?) Hope you don't mind me adding a few comments.

    Let 'em talk (more advertising).
    Let them critisize, they feel threatened.
    Let them be the "purist" they are, they will eventually be lost into obscurity for not moving with the time's.

    I'm a professional musician by trade (a jazzer at heart) for many years and very successful with it, and, the worse thing you can do (being a creative individual) is to not change with the times.

    These people will have to find a way to integrate all of the new things, such as Swish or Flash in to their pages or get left behind. People dig it!


    David, you are Talented. "Purists" in all fields struggle with people like you. Because "all they are and capable of" is learned from a book. But, TALENT (true creative talent) can not be learned.

    DJoy


  14. #14
    Senior Member velez's Avatar
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    Any advertisement is good advertisement ... you should feel glad that they k-n-o-w the name SWISH.

  15. #15
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    I agree with Velez. I wouldn't be suprised if David & Co. actually see a rise in sales after this whole thing. Many folks who never heard of Swish but found Flash too intimidating (but were too scared or thought it was "un-cool" to say so) will embrace Swish with open arms and pocketbooks.
    Great advertising!
    -Bill

  16. #16
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    OK, looks like I hit a nerve. First off let me put the record straight.

    I actually said that I am not slagging off the swish text product, but the bad use of it. I also did the same with Flash.

    The Maria Carey thing was NEVER mentioned in context with Swish, this was talking about the over use of Flash effects in general.

    The Swish Text bit was a very small part of my session. I wanted to provoke a reaction, to get people to start a debate about the use of Flash. To do that you have to bash people over the head. Which, judging by this thread, had the desired effect.

    It seems reading through the posts that a lot of people do feel I have some valid points, while others disagree. Thats fine, it's a free world. Yes I'm lucky that I have an opportunity to stand on stage and put my argument forward, and that's exactly it - it's My opinion and not that of Macromedia's - nothing to do with them.

    I suppose I'll also be getting contacted by the stove manufacturer as I took the piss out of their product!

    Cheers.

  17. #17
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    I wasn't there, but it sounds like a cheap shot to me...

    Call me crazy, but if I can do something easier & quicker with the same results, I'd choose the easier method.

  18. #18
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be that concerned if I were you. After grazing through his porfolio I noticed that better then half of the sites he claimed were down. I also noticed that some of them demonstrated the same things he was alegedly agast by.
    Whats' the best possible outcome of his article?
    After fighting with flash for 30 days and reading the article someone decides to try Swish?

  19. #19
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    with the greatest respect, you all seem to be a bit selective with the quotes. What about this one:

    "(The audience begins to laugh in appreciation.)"


  20. #20
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    So, drawing on his experience working with Hillman Curtis
    and as an independent interactive designer, Dawes gets
    down to the business of delivering guidelines for good
    Macromedia Flash use. His first proclamation: the lecture
    hall is now a "No SWISH Text Zone." (The audience begins
    to laugh in appreciation.) "Flying letters are like a
    cancer! They're starting to creep into TVs, movies,
    everything!"
    It is easy to understand why an audience of professional
    desgners would laugh at "SWiSH Text". Its easy, anyone
    can do it, and it can be easily overdone.

    Poking fun at a program that non-professionals can actually
    use, is all part of the snobbery the seems to go hand-in-
    hand with being a Flash designer (sorry uber Flash
    designer).

    But why pick on a single product? You could have easily
    said this is now a "no flying logos zone", or a "no tacky
    text effects zone", but no, you deliberatey attacked Swish.

    Cheers, David.


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