My first paying client site, need criticism

[wheatleyweb]

Hello Flashkit friends,
As the title states, this is my first job for a paying customer. Up to this point all of my work was for friends and family mainly to work on my style, and just gauge pricing from time taken and the such. This web design work is still a background to my real occupation so my turn around times are not as fast as they should be.

I would like to hear your comments and suggestions. I normally design completely in Flash, but this client wanted to be able to update it themselves so I went with a combination. It took me approximately 40-45 hrs to complete this site and I'm still uncertain of what a "fair" price is to charge for my work. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

heres the link:
http://www.lifestarambulance.com

Thanks again, you guys have helped me out significantly with many of my other projects.

wheatleyweb

[stonehead]

From my point of view it`s a pretty good business-site. Most people may say it`s a little to bory. But thats the way business-sites have to be. No customer want useless animations and stuff like this on his site. Customers need websites for PR or for informing about their goods or services. So far it`s exactly what a profi-website should have to be like. Infomation and a clear menu-leading.
"good job you`ve done there" says barfly

[crunge82]

Hello,
I'm not a flash guru by any means, but I am a designer, so I'll try to help. Congratulations on your first paying site. Overall, I think it looks great. The nav is quick and easy to read, and the header is nice and clean. No unnecessary clutter. I do have a couple of tips--take them or leave them.

The subhead on the header graphic is a little too small--it's a little bit of a strain to read.

I think your footer is inconsistant in regard to your HTML. (It could be a safari thing--I'm on a mac. On the home page, there are 100 px or so of white space below it. It looks fine on the "applicant info" page, but I think that's because the body text fills the window. If you can make your outter-most table 100%, that should fix the problem.

One more. When designing for the web, try to keep dial-up users in mind with your graphics. If you split your current header graphic into two files, the user won't have to reload the entire header each time they navigate to a new page. I'd suggest keeping the header as a JPG since you have the photo in there, but then with your headlines (applicant info, services, etc...), make them a .gif file to keep the file size down. That way the header file will be stored in the user's cache after it loads the first time, and won't slow down the site.

As far as the money goes, a typical web designer/developer charges anywhere from $20 - $120/hour. The more experience, clients, and confidence you gain, the more you can charge. For this site, I think it's reasonable to charge anywhere between $400 - 800, depending on how much you think they're willing to spend, and how much you're comfortable charging. Since you didn't negotiate the price before you started, they could be under the impression that you're doing this for $200, so you need to be prepared to defend whatever price you come up with.

Hope this helps! Best of luck to you--you're off to a great start.

[wheatleyweb]

thanks so much for all the comments. crunge very good point about the image splits. I'm spoiled at work with T1 and Cable at home.

The client is actually an acquaintance and money is really no object to them, and they made that apparent before I started. They realized that this was my first paying site, and were willing to work with me on pricing, which is a blessing. Like i said from start to finish it took about 45 hrs not including initial consultations, so I was thinking to charge $10/hr for 45 hrs $450. Cheap, but I'm still a newb, so to say.

Thanks again for all comments and any others are surely welcome. Now if I can only get my personal portfolio site completed.

wheatleyweb

[wheatleyweb]

any other thoughts on my site..?

thanks
wheatleyweb

[MagnusVS]

Nice and easy to use!

Good work!

[ivanthem]

Charging is probably the most delicate part of the whole process. There are a number of factors to consider:
The financial position of the business If it's a company that's bringing in huge profits, you can prolly get away with charging a little extra than what you normally planned. If it's a struggling business and one that you feel is honest and good, then you might wanna trim the price a little.
Profit or non-profit If this is a non-profit service (didn't read too much into the site), then you might wanna trim the price a little
What it's gonna do for them If the site's gonna earn them lotsa money, then beef up the charge- it's gonna make more money for them than you will from them. Consider the effect of the addition of a website to the business/organization.
Most importantly- how you feel Did you put in a lotta time to get this looking good, professional, clean, etc. If you were in their position would you be happy with the work you did? If you can honestly say yes, then you can be confident that you're being fair

Well, that's what I'd consider anyway, in addition to what was already mentioned- e.g. experience, client base... But indeed, congrats on your first paying job, the site is solid and looks good. I think they'll be happy with it.

[wheatleyweb]

thanks ivanthem. all of that information is good.

They are definitely a profit service, (a significant one i might add). The site is more of an information site with only minor customer interaction so the site itself will not create much profit directly, but will indirectly. I spent a significant amount of time with the design, providing them with multiple protos to choose from. My whole dilemma is the fact that I did this for an old friend (girlfriend to be exact) so there is an expected discount for that reason i'm sure.

thanks again for your help... i think i might up my hourly charge to $15

wheatleyweb

[MagnusVS]

15 $ sounds nice... If she broke up with you, charge them a little extra

[wheatleyweb]

lol magnus.... it was so long ago i cannot even remember the details...

[mal pacino]

pay a man what he is worth - i would say you are cutting your self short. 15 is a little too low - but thats just my opinion.

Look at it this way - how many plumbers do you know who would work for 15 an hour - more like 40. And let's face it why are you worth less than them?

I once did something - a little experiment - i called some web design companies in my local area (not big concerns like 2advanced - just small one man operations) i said i wanted a site making for a music shop i was about the open - just 5 pages, no transactions - just an online brochure - i got no quotes under a thousand british pounds (2 thou dollars about) which i thought was ridiculous

[crunge82]

I partially agree with that. Personally, I charge $30-40/hr for my freelance work, after office hours. My boss bills me at $80/hr during the day for the same work, but he's got a client base willing to pay the price for the credibility that comes with an office and a name. Some of our local competition bills their designers out at $125. That said though, this particular site probably wouldn't have taken me 45 hours. (I know that's easy for me to say once it's finished.) The $400-800 that I estimated in my first post was based on what I thought I would charge for the site had I done it. I probably would have been close to the high end of that. At $15/hr, I think the fire department is getting a pretty good deal for the quality of work that was produced, but I don't think it seems unreasonably low.

[ivanthem]

Mal Pacino- that's exactly what I did, and I found the prices to be outrageous and the overall quality to be poor. Seeing others prices makes it easier to be confident about the price you're asking and gives you material to back your price up with.

[mal pacino]

good man ivan

[mal pacino]

well it's 8 pages - say 20 dollars a page - once the fist page is done - the all the others are easy - just cut and paste - so i guess you charged about 160 dollars?

[wheatleyweb]

mal pacino... are you being facetious?

i truly appreciate all the comments from the senior members. The positive feedback accompanied by the helpful financial thoughts have help my motivation to stick with this hobby/sidework. I think I will stick with my initial thoughts of $15/hr @ 45hrs. $675. I think that is a "fair" price. I already have my next client lined up I will increase my rate, but not until I'm comfortable with that.

Thanks again to all that contributed

wheatleyweb

[mal pacino]

You ask - mal pacino... are you being facetious?

No, perhaps i didn't explain what i meant properly - putting the pages together in say dreamweaver would be fairly simple and would only take perhaps 15 mins per page - that would work out at 80 dollars per hour - Of course i didn't include the price you would charge for the flash work you did and designing all the graphical elements - this of course would bump up the price and bring it into line with your current charge of 675 dollars. Sorry about any misunderstanding.

[wheatleyweb]

absolutely.... most of the time was spent on the flash and design... the layout is nothing.... i understand you now