I'm Norwegian and I have nothing against Islam

[admedia]

its staggering to read those numbers... every time.

Yes, I believe the total number of people is around 11,000,000.

Neighboring Poland - The First Target: "All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles." Heinrich Himmler

Of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians and Catholics. Most of the remaining mortal victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland, France and even Germany.

Just think it's always important to always point out the other 5 million non-jewish people that were also exterminated. This was not just a crime against Jews.

[newhive]

and therein lies the problem, many muslims take the Koran as the "one truth" without taking into consideration the Hadeeths or Sunnas.

the "Taef" thing is in Sunnah not in the Qur'an.

Try reading more carefully, please.

[swampy]

the "Taef" thing is in Sunnah not in the Qur'an.

Try reading more carefully, please.

erm, that was exactly my point I was AGREEING with you. sorry about that, I shall disagree with you in future if it makes you feel better.

[newhive]

And if your holy book teaches that you should kill any one who blasphemes

who said so?

So what is an authority to you is not an authority to others, you cannot impose the standards and judgement of your personal beliefs on other people who dont share those convictions.

I'm not trynig to impose anything to anybody, I just request to be treated as Human. Someone here talked about "I have the right to be insulted", who gave you that right? I don't want that right. Is it a "right"?

What's right to me is to fight back who ever fights me, if anyone insulted me I have the option of returning back or forgiving.

You understand it that way, good, you don't, your problem.

And don't try to tell thing I clarified earlier it's NOT Islamic, like killing, bombing, terrorism. I just talked about boycott.

Yes, and God ( Allah) gives us life, and is the ONLY one who can take it away.

True, but when someone holds a gun to a brain of another and shoot (without having any right to), the other one dies (meaning Allah takes his soul). And that's what bothers.

What..at five in the morning? I don't think so..

It does happen, you're just far to see it.

Muslims don't believe in the holy spirit. They believe in Allah.

We do beleive he exists, and is the messenger from Allah to the prophets with revelation. Actually his the one I referred to as "Gebreel" earlier.

erm, that was exactly my point I was AGREEING with you. sorry about that, I shall disagree with you in future if it makes you feel better.

Sorry I got that wrong.

[admedia]

And don't try to tell thing I clarified earlier it's NOT Islamic, like killing, bombing, terrorism. I just talked about boycott.

So then as a Muslim, you condemn the actions of your Muslim brothers and leaders who do carry out and condone such actions in the name of your religion?

[swampy]

So then as a Muslim, you condemn the actions of your Muslim brothers and leaders who do carry out and condone such actions in the name of your religion?

The leader of my country is a devout christian, does that mean that the invasion of countries sanctioned by him is a direct reflection upon Christianity?

[admedia]

The leader of my country is a devout christian, does that mean that the invasion of countries sanctioned by him is a direct reflection upon Christianity?

He does not carry out those actions in the name of Christianity as Muslim terrorists do. There are not Christian leaders (leaders as in Religous Leaders) calling for and advocating violence as there are in the world of Muslim extremism.

[swampy]

He does not carry out those actions in the name of Christianity as Muslim terrorists do. There are not Christian leaders (leaders as in Religous Leaders) calling for and advocating violence as there are in the world of Muslim extremism.

'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

[XU1]

who said so?

I said "And if" not that "it does"...so then if it's not in the Quran why the Death chants?

I'm not trynig to impose anything to anybody, I just request to be treated as Human. Someone here talked about "I have the right to be insulted", who gave you that right? I don't want that right. Is it a "right"?

No one has a right to be insulted, what we are talking about here is the reaction by Muslims towards the Cartoons.

To be insulted is one thing but many of those who have marched in Eurpoean countries and the Middle East, and the calling from the mosques is that those who did these things should be put to death.


Not to mention the torching of buildings.

This is what I mean about your beliefs not being above others.

What's right to me is to fight back who ever fights me, if anyone insulted me I have the option of returning back or forgiving.

Yes but does an insult merit Killing some one? I mean it's hardly putting a gun to your head and threatening you is it?

You understand it that way, good, you don't, your problem.

I don't have a problem with understanding the example, it's just that it dosent fit.

And don't try to tell thing I clarified earlier it's NOT Islamic, like killing, bombing, terrorism. I just talked about boycott.

When did I do that? Read my post reply to you properly......but now that you mentioned it, there seems to be a hell of a lot of those things these days done in the name of Islam.

Ok can you answer me a question? is it allright to use violence ( or to Kill some one) when they insult or blasphemes ( not you but ) your Prophet?

True, but when someone holds a gun to a brain of another and shoot (without having any right to), the other one dies (meaning Allah takes his soul). And that's what bothers.

We all have free will, and can use it or abuse it, but it dosen't mean we have the right to kill for *any* reason, lives don't belong to us to take.

It does happen, you're just far to see it.

Well I guess if it's good for Muslims to do it, why not Church bells for the Christians?...that's fair isn't it?

iTony

[swampy]

the holy spirit is not equateable to Gebreel - It is part of the holy trinity, along with Jesus - the son of God and God. Christians (most notably catholics) believe that each are integral and worthy of worship.

This runs contrary to what the Koran teaches in that there is one god: Allah. Mohamed dispelled the notion of a son of God and a Holy spirity as a sign that other people "of the book" had lost their way.

[newhive]

the holy spirit is not equateable to Gebreel - It is part of the holy trinity, along with Jesus - the son of God and God and integral part of what should be worshipped alongside God. This runs contrary to what the Koran teaches.

Then I was wrong, thanks swampy for clarifying. Strange you know alot, about religion.

[swampy]

Then I was wrong, thanks swampy for clarifying. Strange you know alot, about religion.

I like to read.

[admedia]

I clarified 'Religious Leaders'. George Bush is not a Priest, Minister or Rabbi.

[swampy]

In Islam there is no law but the law of God, so technically the religious leaders of Islamic countries are comparable with the elected leaders of Christian countries.

The problem arises when the law of God is misinterpreted to fulfill the needs of men.

Another problem is when the leader of a country which has laws to seperate church from state claims that he is on a mission from god.

[admedia]

In Islam there is no law but the law of God, so technically the religious leaders of Islamic countries are comparable with the elected leaders of Christian countries.

So how am I, as a westerner, to differentiate between countries political leaders and religious leaders?

I think you are reaching here a bit.

[swampy]

So how am I, as a westerner, to differentiate between countries political leaders and religious leaders?

I think you are reaching here a bit.

you're not, in Islam they are one and the same. To Muslims life is religion.

[admedia]

you're not, in Islam they are one and the same.

So what about president Mushariff? Is he just chopped liver to disregard?
I know there are many other leaders of Islamic countries who are not religous leaders. Saddam?

[swampy]

So what about president Mushariff? Is he just chopped liver to disregard?
I know there are many other leaders of Islamic countries who are not religous leaders. Saddam?

Like I said "The problem arises when the law of God is misinterpreted to fulfill the needs of men." It goes contrary to the teachings of the prophet. There are many people that would claim to be Muslim that are not following the law of Islam, just as there are many christians that are not adhering to the teachings of Jesus and his disciples.

Nice use of a jewish phrase/dish to describe a Muslim leader though, very good.

[admedia]

Another problem is when the leader of a country which has laws to seperate church from state claims that he is on a mission from god.

There is nothing wrong with a political leader being open about his spirituality in a country founded on freedom of religion. I don't believe the motivation behind his policies is purely a spiritual one. There are many people in this country who support his defense policies without regard to religion.

[swampy]

There is nothing wrong with a political leader being open about his spirituality in a country founded on freedom of religion. I don't believe the motivation behind his policies is purely a spiritual one. There are many people in this country who support his defense policies without regard to religion.

The quote was made at a conference hosted in an Islamic country.