Who killed the electric car?

[jAQUAN]

...and all kinds of nuts.

clearly.

And what pray tell, grew into your avatar?

[Ask The Geezer]

My avatar? You should recognize him. Thats the meatball in the center of the Noodly Appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Just in our yard, we have a small herb garden and some berry bushes and a cherry tree. We pick them all and what we don't eat right away, we either freeze or dry for later use. No, it isn't enough to keep you going all year, but it keeps our hand in.

I have a few wild cherries (grew from teh cherries of planted cherry tree since chopped down). Got 2 apples trees (need a thrid for cross pollination (yes i grew up in teh city)). 2 peach trees. 2 blueberry bushes. A garden with peppers, tomatoes, spinach, squash, cantalope, and lettuce. got a grapevine to.

haven't tried drying or canning anything... wouldn't mind trying to make cider if I every get that thrid apple tree.

[Ask The Geezer]

Got 2 apples trees (need a thrid for cross pollination

Do some research on apple trees. I didn't find this out till just a few years ago, but growing an apple tree from a seed produces terrible tasting apples. You have to graft new tops on seed rootstock, or the apples will be inedible, sour. Apparently, all eating apple trees are made that way. You can take cuttings from a sweet apple tree, but they have to be grafted.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

I'll learn how to graft when we run out of oil, until then i'm driving to Lowes or the local Nursery.

[Markp.com]

Great little 20 minute pbs doc here on the movie: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/

Requires RealPlayer (or real alternative if you don't want to infest your machine with spyware)

[Ask The Geezer]

Yeah, nothing new there. Too bad for us.

[indivision]

id be interested to see this to hear the complete reasoning. but, how much sense does it make to say that GM "never really wanted the cars to take off"? If that were true, wouldn't it have been easier to just not make them in the first place?

[3PRIMATES]

Well, they actually had to make one per legislation. All Major manufacturers were supposed to have an alternative fuel vehicle in production.
Why they wouldnt want one is because of the sales of OEM parts and supplies.
OEM parts sales is a multi billion dollar industry in itself.
Its all about money. Big industry in general does not care what happens to the world around them, as long as they remain profitable. If they were allowed to, they would still be dumping toxic manufacturing waste into the rivers because it is cheaper that waste disposal or waste storage.

3P

[indivision]

Well, they actually had to make one per legislation.

ic. Do you have a link or anything that explains that legislation?

Big industry in general does not care what happens to the world around them, as long as they remain profitable.

Are you referring to industries that represent millions of people from CEOs to janitors?

[indivision]

out of curiosity, i looked into the EV car they were talking about. oddly, i couldn't find how much they cost anywhere on the film site. seems like important info.

anyway, they only leased them, using a base price of $30-40k, 15 years ago. given inflation, they would probably cost at least $50k now. an amount most people dont have into vehicles (except in LA ). also, im not sure what the maximum range was on that one. but, even the best new batteries coming out only provide 250 miles max before needing to recharge. that would be pretty inconvenient for a familys main vehicle if they wanted to make occasional road trips to the grand canyon, disneyland or whatever.

After California regulators saw G.M.s electric car in the late 1980s, they launched a zero-emissions vehicle program in 1990 to clean up the state's smoggy skies.

Maybe there was another piece of legislation. But, it looks like GM built the car before that. So, Im still not sure why they would spend a billion dollars on the project if they really didnt want it to work.

the true magnitude of GM's commitment in developing the EV1 project is shown by the fact that without government subsidies each of the 1100 cars produced would have cost the company in excess of $900,000, about half the lifetime earnings of the average American worker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV1

[ViRGo_RK]

I blame chuck norris.

[3PRIMATES]

ic. Do you have a link or anything that explains that legislation?

Ill look again later, but this is a decent read. MFG's are tied into this somehow. Read the bottom paragraph. MFG's are tied into this also. They are responsible for creating the clean-air vehicles used for fleet purposes.
http://www.ethanol-gec.org/clean/cf02.htm

Are you referring to industries that represent millions of people from CEOs to janitors?

Thinking more about dirty industry. Steel, auto, paper, chemical, etc.
The bottom line has always been money. Even though the PTB know that the emissions they produce can cause major environemental and health issues, they still fight tooth and nail when asked to limit emissions. They go to court, get injunctions and continue polluting. There are some MFG's that pay millions in fines for dumping each year because it is cheaper to dump and pay fines than it is to comply with EPA regulations.
It is gfetting harder for them to do thisa now because they are more often closed down for repeat offenses.

3P

[indivision]

Ill look again later, but this is a decent read. MFG's are tied into this somehow. Read the bottom paragraph. MFG's are tied into this also. They are responsible for creating the clean-air vehicles used for fleet purposes.
http://www.ethanol-gec.org/clean/cf02.htm

Yeah. As far as I can tell, the MFG's have as much motivation as anyone else to make these new cars sell. If it suddenly became the rage to have these vehicles (as there is already a sturdy hybrid push now), the MFG's stand to make a lot of profits. Thats why I dont really see how the claim in the film description about them not wanting it to work makes sense.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Why they wouldnt want one is because of the sales of OEM parts and supplies.
OEM parts sales is a multi billion dollar industry in itself.
3P

Why would an electric vehicle have lower sales of oem parts. If anything I would think they would be higher over time. Electric cars would be like macs... not upgradable, every few years you would have to throw it away and buy a new one. but hey the work right out the box

The film is crap, if you want the real story read some books, never rely on film for information, and don't rely on one single book either. Beware the man of one book or film i guess in this matter.

[Markp.com]

The weird thing about the pbs video posted above is when they talk about "living like Europeans" WTF?!

What the hell do they mean? I'm European, I live in a beautiful house, drive a sexy car, have lots of free time and money... isn't that the american dream or some other cliché...

[Ask The Geezer]

Maybe there was another piece of legislation. But, it looks like GM built the car before that. So, Im still not sure why they would spend a billion dollars on the project if they really didnt want it to work.

And gas was under a dollar a gallon then.

What incentive?

Mark, the "amerikan dream" is to have TWO cars in every garage.

[Markp.com]

And gas was under a dollar a gallon then.

What incentive?

Mark, the "amerikan dream" is to have TWO cars in every garage.

Hahaha One for the obese husband and one for his obese wife?

[Ask The Geezer]

Yup. A work car and a family car.

[indivision]

The weird thing about the pbs video posted above is when they talk about "living like Europeans" WTF?!

hah. they're usually more subtle about this infatuation. keep in mind that the UK may not count toward the Euro-dream any more on account of Blair and Iraq.

Im pretty sure the dream has moved from London to Stockholm since the 60s.