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Thread: Who killed the electric car?

  1. #61
    Official FK nice guy and MOD 3PRIMATES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    Why would an electric vehicle have lower sales of oem parts. If anything I would think they would be higher over time. Electric cars would be like macs... not upgradable, every few years you would have to throw it away and buy a new one. but hey the work right out the box
    electric vehicles have fewer working parts that the average combustion fueled vehicle. The drive train is slimmed down, there is no exhaust system(including the high priced catalytic converter), no fuel or combustion engine parts at all. Those parts alone are a multi-billion dollar industry.



    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar
    The film is crap, if you want the real story read some books, never rely on film for information, and don't rely on one single book either. Beware the man of one book or film i guess in this matter.

    Film is just as viable for usable information as are books. I agree though, just like any information, never rely on on source for information.

    The real truth of the matter is that the major vehicle manufacturers are in bed with the oil industry and they always have been. Big money = big corruption, its a fact of life. The human race in general is greedy. Money = power and power corrupts absolutely.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe in people, but not in humanity. Individuals can be great, but as always, if you get a large amount of people into a group, as in a corporation, then the groups attitude becomes the sum of all its parts.

    3P
    Last edited by 3PRIMATES; 08-13-2006 at 04:50 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #62
    Banned indivision's Avatar
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    Why would the auto manufacturers be "in bed" with the oil companies? Can you substantiate that?

    Seems like the same thing as saying that corn-flake manufacturers are "in bed" with the corn industry.

  3. #63
    Phantom Flasher... Markp.com's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say in bed... I would say dependant on...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markp.com
    I wouldn't say in bed... I would say dependant on...
    right. and electric cars would make them less dependent on oil. in generic terms, dependencies are usually considered undesireable for business and profits.

  5. #65
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    The oil industry isn't going to share anything. Let alone a bed. They're in it for themselves. The parts industry is in it for themsleves, and will be here long after the oil is gone.

    All of them, their power and their record profits are all dependant on one thing. The people who buy a tank of gas at a time, people who buy gas hogs. If anybody is in bed with anyone, it's the ad industry, working for the profiteers.

  6. #66
    Banned indivision's Avatar
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    just sounds to me like an attempt to use yet another industry as the scapegoat for why the world isnt perfect and everything isnt free.

  7. #67
    FK's Geezer Mod Ask The Geezer's Avatar
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    Your sounding an awfull lot like someone who owns stock in an oil company.

  8. #68
    Banned indivision's Avatar
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    i probably do have some via some index fund.

    not sure if you thought i was. but, i wasnt referring to your comment about oil. i was meaning the auto industry being attacked by the film. if they deserve it, they deserve it. if they dont, havent they been beat up enough by the unions already?

  9. #69
    Phantom Flasher... Markp.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indivision
    right. and electric cars would make them less dependent on oil. in generic terms, dependencies are usually considered undesireable for business and profits.
    I was talking about the current auto industry being reliant on oil comps...

    See the doc... would people drive to a filling station to "refuel" their batteries? (for several hours) Would they buy oil/rubber components to make sure their engines keep running?

    Anyway, the merits of this film, no matter who they target are a call to action. A way to popularise renewable energy and none polluting electric cars.

    Yes, its not a perfect argument, but if it gets enough people talking and interested in the subject, change will happen, for the better!

    We all know about the huge future problems this world is facing environmental, natural resource depletion, global war etc... If we could prevent at least one of them, then that's kinda cool in my book

  10. #70
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    if they dont, havent they been beat up enough by the unions already?
    No, they haven't. The auto industry made an agreement with the unions. In the past, they have even used the point that american cars were the best in the world because they were union made. Now that they want to increase their profits, they dump on the unions, default on retirement payments, send american jobs overseas to break the unions, then bring them back as non-union shops to make more profit. I mean, comeon, do you think people are blind?

    Whatever happens to them, they more than deserve. I know your a monster business supporter, but sooner or later, they are going to kill the golden goose with thier greedy, money grubbing practices.

  11. #71
    Senior Member random25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer
    Weren't you the one who posted the pic of the old chevy with a ton of electric drill batteries in the trunk?
    That was me
    Here is that car
    It uses 384 cordless hand tool batteries.

    I hope those dont blow up like hp laptop batteries.
    Last edited by random25; 08-13-2006 at 09:36 PM.

    If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. Carl Sagan

  12. #72
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    Ha, yeah, that's the one. I still say there are enough shade tree mechanics in the US that a conversion kit maker could make a killing in the next few years, until regular electrics are available. Maybe even after.

  13. #73
    Banned indivision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markp.com
    I was talking about the current auto industry being reliant on oil comps...

    ...

    We all know about the huge future problems this world is facing environmental, natural resource depletion, global war etc... If we could prevent at least one of them, then that's kinda cool in my book
    yeah. im not opposed to new fuels, etc. but, i disagree that the merit is the goal at the expense of a sound argument. the reason being that hyperbole can sometimes damage an industry unnecessarily or even hinder progress toward the goal by focusing public energy on trivial issues.

    really, i believe that most people buy the value of having electric cars. but, the reality is that they've been expensive to make and have some significant disadvantages to fossil fuel based vehicles. instead of hopping up and down about old white guys in suits because its popular amongst mtv watchers, we should be focused on solving those problems and recognizing that the auto manufacturers are and always will be the best equiped to do it. they need to know there is real demand, not disdain and finger pointing.

  14. #74
    Banned indivision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer
    No, they haven't. The auto industry made an agreement with the unions. In the past, they have even used the point that american cars were the best in the world because they were union made. Now that they want to increase their profits, they dump on the unions, default on retirement payments, send american jobs overseas to break the unions, then bring them back as non-union shops to make more profit. I mean, comeon, do you think people are blind?

    Whatever happens to them, they more than deserve. I know your a monster business supporter, but sooner or later, they are going to kill the golden goose with thier greedy, money grubbing practices.
    hah. you call that an "agreement"? its called a labor monopoly.

    they arent trying to increase profits, they're just trying to make enough money back to make the vehicles competitive in quality to foreign competition that doesnt have a legion of organized self interest working for them.

    im a monster business supporter... are you an anti-business supporter? low profits are what we need? "today, GM announced that they will be officially closing their doors. thats right, zero profits."

    would that be progess? rah rah.

  15. #75
    FK's Geezer Mod Ask The Geezer's Avatar
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    are you an anti-business supporter
    I'm definately an anti-big business supporter. When a business gets so big that they hire lawyers to figure out how to cheat people and the government, then they've gone totally around the bend. Whether they are driven by their sharholders or by the ceo at the top, they aren't helping anyone but themselves. So why should I support them?

    If you don't find anything morally or fiscally wrong with a company sending it's jobs overseas to make a few more bucks, then your one of them. They weaken the country and do very little to help it out at all. It's called ****ting in your own nest, and eventually, it's going to get so foul you can't find a decent place to sit down.
    Last edited by Ask The Geezer; 08-14-2006 at 01:46 AM.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer
    I'm definately an anti-big business supporter. When a business gets so big that they hire lawyers to figure out how to cheat people and the government, then they've gone totally around the bend. Whether they are driven by their sharholders or by the ceo at the top, they aren't helping anyone but themselves. So why should I support them?
    because they pay most of the tax revenues that you benefit directly from? because they bring down the cost of goods and thus your quality of living up? because they provide jobs and opportunities for millions of americans? because they have the flexibility of resources to spend more money on innovation than small businesses? because they attract foreign investment which brings more capital home?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer
    If you don't find anything morally or fiscally wrong with a company sending it's jobs overseas to make a few more bucks, then your one of them.
    Heres whats "fiscally" wrong with complaints about jobs going overseas:

    If our companies do not utilize labor that is competitively priced in world terms, those companies will not be able to compete with the prices offered for foreign products. So, we either displace some workers in order to keep the companies alive and sell american made products or we protect isolated groups of workers, phase down our companies and create a larger dependency on inexpensive imported products.

  18. #78
    FK's Geezer Mod Ask The Geezer's Avatar
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    Your delerious. Pay their fair share of taxes? Bah. Why do you think they went overseas? Where's the millions of jobs? Gone overseas. Cost of goods coming down? Attract foreign investment? Sure, to pump it into factories in Mexico and buy futures in oil. Sheeese, you've gone round the bend.

    If our companies do not utilize labor that is competitively priced in world terms, those companies will not be able to compete with the prices offered for foreign products. So, we either displace some workers in order to keep the companies alive and sell american made products or we protect isolated groups of workers, phase down our companies and create a larger dependency on inexpensive imported products.
    Ya know, we did alright before all these big money hogs went multinational. But you wouldn't remember that, heh. Don't try and teach your elders to suck eggs. Your like in a brave new world, second generation. You have no idea whats been done to you.
    Last edited by Ask The Geezer; 08-14-2006 at 02:00 AM.

  19. #79
    Banned indivision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer
    Your delerious. Pay their fair share of taxes? Bah. Why do you think they went overseas? Where's the millions of jobs? Gone overseas. Cost of goods coming down? Attract foreign investment? Sure, to pump it into factories in Mexico and buy futures in oil. Sheeese, you've gone round the bend.
    I dont think anyones share of taxes is "fair". But, the fact is, whatever is going on, corporations pay the largest bulk of taxes. That covers the streets you drive on. The street lights. The pot-hole fillers. The fire and police department. etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask The Geezer
    Ya know, we did alright before all these big money hogs went multinational. But you wouldn't remember that, heh. Don't try and teach your elders to suck eggs. Your like in a brave new world, second generation. You have no idea whats been done to you.
    i respect your elderness. but, i dont think im a hatchling either. things were different before for a number of reasons. mainly, technology has increased international commerce. economic structures of foreign countries has also contributed. whether you like it or not, there is world competition. closing the doors to that for our companies would just handicap them and reward foreign companies. instead of the profits you are disgusted by staying in our country, it would just send them over seas.

  20. #80
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    Your never going to get it. First off, those profits are not all staying here, and they are not trickleing down. What's happening is money is changing hands, in a one way direction. People are making less, and companies, and a few at the top are making more. How long do you think it can go on? The signs are already there. The housing bubble has burst, people can no longer pay their mortgages cause they can no longer earn what they use to, and 46 million americans don't have any kind of insurance. Foreign trade agreements don't work for us, because nobody but us plays by the rules. The country itself is in debt so deep that nobody knows when or if it can be paid off. Seriously dude, what's it going to take before you can see something wrong with this picture?

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