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Thread: New online Flash magazine!

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    Yeah I'll throw my 2 cents in too and say the same as all else. There's nothing in this site design that could not be done in HTML+PHP. So I don't see why you would go and use Flash and totally close your site off to:

    1. Search engines
    2. Other people linking to specific content.
    3. Searching the site for key words
    4. Ability to hit BACK, or right-click links
    5. Etc, etc, etc...

    You're really handicapping your potential success, especially if you hope to someday have the site be self-sufficient through ad revenues. You'll never get the traffic you deserve if you don't address the points above.

    ~Ray

  2. #22
    Untitled-2.fla
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    [QUOTE=Fall_X]
    Quote Originally Posted by token 3
    Yeah, I agree on most points, except : "having all the content in flash is not good for search engines... only a few people will find your site on a search engine."

    Some clever tricks can solve this (invisible divs or something).
    invisible divs with content are so incredibly pointless... diplication of content will increase page sizes. bandwidth...

    the only valid reason(s) for a flash site are:

    *image enhancements (animations etc)
    *quirky sites

    informative should, in my opinion, and in the opinion of all most web developers should never be flash only.

    all navigation and internal links will need to be duplicated to allow search engines to spider the site...

    sites like this (the site in question) could get high google rankings, if the site was to be developed in html, as it looks like there could be a lot of content that changes (search engine spiders love fresh content).

  3. #23
    Senior Member Boombanguk's Avatar
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    first of all thanks for all the feedback, I take everything that anyone says as constructive criticism, even though I might dissagree with some of it! . One important point I would like to make is this. Even though people might have issues with it not being html, what I would really like to know is, has the fact that its flash stopped you from reading any of the articles? or looking at any of the websites/games/development links? if the answer is "no", then I'm happy, because at the most (and most important) basic level the site has worked. Regardless of the various htmlVsFlash issues, its getting the content across to people which I'm really trying to do. Maybe the next poll question should be "have this site been useful to you?"!

    Right now onto replies!

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsamson
    regarding the monthly poll you could ask which flash version people use right now,mx,7,8 or 9
    But don't the adobe penentration rates show that?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsamson
    I thought a while if i should post on the same topic,im I thought a while if i should post on the same topic,im not into pushing you all into the corner where you have to defend youself,but yeah,after all i think youd profit more by changing it,so here i goes: I totally agree with the others on whether to use flash to do a whole website or not. Flash has its strengths and its weaker sides,because of those itd be ok with having an entire flash driven website if the site was utilizing flashs strengths (heavy media/video or organic layout driven for example). Your site is a typical data driven blog like site though,i cant see a point at all in having it done in flash other than just for havin it done in flash in this case.
    I guess when I think of design, I think of motion graphics, I think of design through images rather then through text, which is why FC has a lot of large thumbnails. I'm not a huge fan of lots and lots and lots of text, of varying sizes/colours/fonts etc all over the screen. To me the simpler you make it, and more you use images rather then text the better. Having said that, obviously there are sections of the site that are all text (the interviews) and for these sections I will think of making the text a lot clearer. This is just the first version of the site, and everyones comments will certainly help me improve it, so I appreciate the comments, but my instinct's are to keep it as visual as possible.

    Its not a Blog site though. I might have an editorial every now and again, but the site is not my "thoughts" on the day. I'll leave those kinds of opinions to other people!. FC is more of a showcase of the world of Flash, as well as trying to provide the community with usefull titbits of info that I've found scattered around. As for indexing, for now I'm not fussed if its doing well on search engines or not (those words are gonna come back and bite me in the ass I just know it). Hopefully it will spread within the community itself, and then maybe on the back of all of that I can increase its availability via search engines.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsamson
    I also badly miss ctrl+F.
    Searching is something I would like to incorporate into the site, the only issue is how! , Keeping it visual, and seeing that most of the information (best sites/games/motion graphics) is thumbnail based, it might be nice to dynamically create the grid of thumbs based upon the search criteria but I'll have to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsamson
    If you do this type of site in flash imho (which id only suggest in case you intend to change the site towards using the strenghts of flash more) you HAVE to do it for the newest flash player version possible imho,too.
    Some reasons:
    -f7 allows custom right click menu content (-->open links in new window ability)
    -f7 allows mousewheel support for components etc
    -f8 allows cacheASBitmap-->Vector driven stuff like components can consume way less performance.
    -f8 allows crisper text rendering.
    I agree with all of that. By xmas I will do a F8 version of the website, but for now i'll just try to address some of the issues raised within MX.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsamson
    oh,btw i noticed something weird about the interviews teaser on top: once you click on an interview you cant use the prev and next buttons on the teaser anymore unless you go back to the main menu
    fixing that tonight!

    Quote Originally Posted by iopred
    Nice interviews, nice site apart from the stated design/feel issues, my only gripe, no HA3 in the games list!
    thanks for the comments. Each weekend i'll be updating the best sites/games/motion graphics, HA3 will go in next weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by squize
    I'm pretty much with the other guys in terms of presentation and useability. I personally hate seeing an AntiA font in a text box like that.
    But like everyone else has said, it's got a load of potential, and it's a great start, good work mate ( btw, gone through my 100+ mails this morning, I've only been away a week! Wasn't ignoring you mate, was in Sunny Wales eating and drinking like a king ).
    Text seems to be a major gripe with a lot of ppl, so thats something i'll be sorting soon. As for not being able to contact you, its cool, weathers been great, sounds like you had fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by Helmsman
    - the grey color don't works good with white fonts (at least the grey tint you used) - and finally website leaves me with a strong feeling of incomplete job :/ But nice try....
    I'll probably change the grey colour, make take it away totally, and just leave the text on the dark background.
    Well it is the first version , like I said, if you find something of use on the site, then thats what make me happy, everything else I can address over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gloo pot
    BOOKMARKED!!!!!!!!!!!This is great
    thanks , glad you liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by token 3
    i completely agree, but for a diffetent reason.
    flash is always a bad platform to develop sites in, especially sites that orrer information.what if i want / i can't':
    print out the articles
    resize the text to see the articles...
    to see my article full screen flash takes a fair bit of extra work to get everything to scale and still look good
    view it on my PDA
    i'm partially blind, i rely upon a screen-reader

    having all the content in flash is not good for search engines... only a few people will find your site on a search engine. sorry i'm all about the accessability. hope it helps
    It does help . I find it interesting though that on a "Flash" forum, everyone seems to be so pro html, at least for information websites. Ok firstly, honestly how often have you printed an article out from the net? I'm not saying its not good to have that function, but I've never done it, and I'm not sure its something that a lot of people do, but maybe i'm wrong about that. I guess though I could also offer the interviews as downloadable word docs? But Accessability is important I agree, so I'll look into those issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Beez
    Yeah I'll throw my 2 cents in too and say the same as all else. There's nothing in this site design that could not be done in HTML+PHP. So I don't see why you would go and use Flash and totally close your site off to:

    1. Search engines
    2. Other people linking to specific content.
    3. Searching the site for key words
    4. Ability to hit BACK, or right-click links
    5. Etc, etc, etc...

    You're really handicapping your potential success, especially if you hope to someday have the site be self-sufficient through ad revenues. You'll never get the traffic you deserve if you don't address the points above.
    I agree but, the audience for this site is the Flash community, and even though they all seem to love html, if anyone is going to be "ok" with Flash quirks its going to be them. I'm not saying that I won't be working on the issues raised but hopefully people appreciate that i've gone for a non-html look! (and to be honest, even though ppl have griped about issues, everyone who has contacted me about it, seems to love the general design).

    OVERALL!

    thanks again for everyone's feedback, Keep it coming! It does make me think "oh hell I re do it in html!" haha, but I won't, Flash is where my heart is and I'm a firm believer that you CAN do information websites in Flash. I just don't agree that flash is just a media player. One of the things I really wanted to avoid with this website is it looking html. Actually my first design was a very html looking site, but then I thought whats the point of that, I want it to have a distinct style, which from what i've read/heard i've achieved. I'm going to try to keep it as image based as possible, and use Flash's strengths as much as possible, but with also solving some of the accessability issues as well. At the end of the day though its about the content.

    But i'll look to solve some of these issues over the next few days.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boombanguk
    I agree but, the audience for this site is the Flash community, and even though they all seem to love html, if anyone is going to be "ok" with Flash quirks its going to be them. I'm not saying that I won't be working on the issues raised but hopefully people appreciate that i've gone for a non-html look! (and to be honest, even though ppl have griped about issues, everyone who has contacted me about it, seems to love the general design).
    Well, I disagree and think you're shooting yourself in the foot. Your initial responses are from people to whom you are directly "advertising" the site. I visited it because of your post here. But to truly make your efforts worthwhile, you'll have to get traffic from somewhere, and Google is one avenue. I may be a Flash developer, but I still Google for information. If your site doesn't come up, you're limiting your audience.

    Even the interview was a pain to get through because I kept hitting my scrollwheel. Then using the scroll widget, scrolling was a bit choppy (if you used Flash 8 and set the bitmap cache, that sucker would become so much smoother!). So I dunno. I think people here like you and will tolerate as much as they can because you have some great relevant news, but you don't want a site audience of just 12 people, do you?
    ;-)
    (On the other hand, maybe I'm being "chicken little" about this... It's a great site. I wish you the best of luck)
    Last edited by Ray Beez; 07-10-2006 at 06:20 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Boombanguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Beez
    Well, I disagree and think you're shooting yourself in the foot. Your initial responses are from people to whom you are directly "advertising" the site. I visited it because of your post here. But to truly make your efforts worthwhile, you'll have to get traffic from somewhere, and Google is one avenue. I may be a Flash developer, but I still Google for information. If your site doesn't come up, you're limiting your audience.

    Even the interview was a pain to get through because I kept hitting my scrollwheel. Then using the scroll widget, scrolling was a bit choppy (if you used Flash 8 and set the bitmap cache, that sucker would become so much smoother!). So I dunno. I think people here like you and will tolerate as much as they can because you have some great relevant news, but you don't want a site audience of just 12 people, do you?
    ;-)
    (On the other hand, maybe I'm being "chicken little" about this... It's a great site. I wish you the best of luck)
    I think if the content is relevant like you said, and I feature the best in Flash then I think it will be ok, and will spread. I WILL address the issues people raised , But Im resisting using html for now. The most I will do in that direction is possibly use it for google adsense but i'm still debating that.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Boombanguk's Avatar
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    what does everyone think about making the interviews downloadable as word .docs?

    actually now im thinking downloadable .pdf files.
    Last edited by Boombanguk; 07-11-2006 at 12:17 AM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Gloo pot's Avatar
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    I want that feature ...

    I must stress that i "HATE!!!!" not being able to open links inside FF, is there away to work around this in flash?
    92.7 Fresh FM for all your South Aussies - Doof Doof music FTW people!

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    Hey how come Flashkit isn't in Flash????

    ;-) (I'm an opinionated stubborn old f*** aren't I?)

  9. #29
    Feeling adventurous? T1ger's Avatar
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    Great page

    BUT..
    * Make it in F8. 99.9% of the people who will read it has F8.
    * Make it look more like a html-page. I agree in having it in flash, but you need to utilize a lot more of flashs features to make it feel and act like a html page. You could actually size it 100% of the page's width and height, and using Stage.scaleMode = noScale, and dynamically resize within flash. It would look and behave so much better. Just look for a change in Stage.width or Stage.height, and rerender the page to fit the its new dimensions.
    * Flash with JS and some PHP could make bookmarking and back/forward-buttons functional (At least from inside flash). I may make a site in flash myself to test it out, along with the other i mentioned..
    I don't have a photograph, but you can have my footprints. They're upstairs in my socks.

  10. #30
    Untitled-2.fla
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    Quote Originally Posted by T1ger

    BUT..
    * Make it in F8. 99.9% of the people who will read it has F8.
    * Make it look more like a html-page. I agree in having it in flash
    sorry, just had to jump in here...

    isn't that like saying 'make it flash 9 because i have it installed'?

    and the alternative to 'make it look more like an html page' is in fact... believe it or not.... wait for it.. build it in html

    right that's it, i'm leaving for another year.
    good luck with the site. and keep up the good work.

  11. #31
    Feeling adventurous? T1ger's Avatar
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    Token 3:
    No its not. The sites main target is flash game developers, and i see no reason why a flash game developer would not have flash 8 installed. Do you?
    I don't have a photograph, but you can have my footprints. They're upstairs in my socks.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    I agree, if Boom's going to argue that the site's audience is Flash people and that they will be more tolerant of Flash being used, then it would also be true that that audience would have Flash 8 installed.

  13. #33
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    I'm all for doing it in Flash if you're going to set a good example of using Flash - which means utilising the most up to date version, addressing people's general criticisms of Flash against HTML, and making it look and feel fresh and exciting.

    If you're not determined to set an example of how best to use Flash, on a community site that's going to be mainly used by Flash people, then you really are better off using HTML imo.
    Last edited by routine404; 07-11-2006 at 07:26 PM.
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  14. #34
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    Hey Boom, I see you changed the fonts. Looks much better!

  15. #35
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    In the "about us " page (and possibly others too) I can't select the text. I always select text while reading, makes it easier to remember where I was when I get distracted.
    Might be nitpicking, but it's little things like that that really make a difference.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Boombanguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Beez
    Hey how come Flashkit isn't in Flash????

    ;-) (I'm an opinionated stubborn old f*** aren't I?)
    well thats a good question why is it in html? text not clear in Flash? thats solvable in Flash (especially F8), can't use back/forward, or the mouse wheel? or solvable in Flash, more easily updatable in html? they must have a CMS to update this website, which i'm sure could just as easily spit out dynamic content for Flash as it does for html. So, why is it in html (apart from it started off like that).....well, after looking at this issue a lot because of the points raised i this thread, I have to say the only good reason I can see to use html is indexing. And thats about it (if you are comparing it to F8). And with that in mind, I agree Flash sites that can not have their content indexed is a BIG drawback. But really, how long will that situation continue? with more and more websites using Flash with dynamic content?

    And to be honest, this is primarily a community website. I'm not bothered if someone looking to buy a flower pot on google, doesn't stumble across my site on page 200 of some search criteria. I'll look to build the traffic through the people who its aimed at.

    Quote Originally Posted by T1ger
    Great page
    BUT..
    * Make it in F8. 99.9% of the people who will read it has F8.
    * Make it look more like a html-page. I agree in having it in flash, but you need to utilize a lot more of flashs features to make it feel and act like a html page. You could actually size it 100% of the page's width and height, and using Stage.scaleMode = noScale, and dynamically resize within flash. It would look and behave so much better. Just look for a change in Stage.width or Stage.height, and rerender the page to fit the its new dimensions.
    * Flash with JS and some PHP could make bookmarking and back/forward-buttons functional (At least from inside flash). I may make a site in flash myself to test it out, along with the other i mentioned..
    thanks for the comments.

    Not sure what you mean by your first points though, I did what you said and it positioned it center and that was fine, but couldn't really see any other change? and what do you mean by re-render?

    I looked into named anchors but they only work on the main timeline (my content is within another clip) and after reading on one of the FK forums, they don't seem to work anyway. A js work around would be cool if you know of one.

    Quote Originally Posted by routine404
    I'm all for doing it in Flash if you're going to set a good example of using Flash - which means utilising the most up to date version, addressing people's general criticisms of Flash against HTML, and making it look and feel fresh and exciting.

    If you're not determined to set an example of how best to use Flash, on a community site that's going to be mainly used by Flash people, then you really are better off using HTML imo.
    Ha where do I start!, first of all, I wasn't trying to set a "good example" of Flash, what exactly does that mean anyway? I'm well aware of "good examples" of Flash because I spent the last 2 months scouring the internet to find the best Flash websites in the world...and then showcase them on the site. So I would of thought if anyones got a good idea of what the best Flash websites are its me, but I wasn't trying to do what a lot of those sites do (and do very well) which is create some site with motion graphics and super stylised visuals etc etc, thats not what FC is about.

    I wanted something simple in its execution. But to me "simple" doesn't HAVE to mean html. I wanted to present the content in as straightforward manner possible which if you go to the site you will see I have done. Ok so it doesn't have programmed visual effects etc etc, but that wasn't what I was trying to do with this.

    But I have taken all the comments in this thread on board, and I will be looking to implement as much functionality into the site as I can.

    so downloadable .pdf's of the interviews, yes/no?
    Last edited by Boombanguk; 07-11-2006 at 09:07 PM.

  17. #37
    CRT Boy mclelun's Avatar
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    I dont see why I need to download a PDF copy of interview
    unless it got some good **** in there

    btw nice site with interesting content

  18. #38
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    Hey Boom, just want you to know we all appreciate your effort and all these crits are just because we care to see your endeavour be a success. :-)

  19. #39
    Senior Member Boombanguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Beez
    Hey Boom, just want you to know we all appreciate your effort and all these crits are just because we care to see your endeavour be a success. :-)
    I know , and I appreciate the support!

  20. #40
    Senior Member Boombanguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mclelun
    I dont see why I need to download a PDF copy of interview
    unless it got some good **** in there

    btw nice site with interesting content
    well its an interesting question, downloadable content or not. I would much rather make an interview a .pdf or even word .doc where people know a lot more about how to print it out of do things with it etc, then try and replicate all the options that those programs have (acrobat reader, word etc) in html or Flash.

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