A Flash Developer Resource Site

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 38 of 38

Thread: First Microsoft... then Sony.

  1. #21
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    4,779
    Quote Originally Posted by jahasloth
    I particularly like how the PS3 is an entirely new console, even though has "PS2 chips inside the PS3," but the Wii is just a GC with a few Mhz more here and there.
    Well, the PS2 chips are just there for BC, not for the PS3 games (they use Cell & RSX). PS3 games don't even have access to the PS2 chips as Sony wants to remove them as soon as possible. On the other hand, the overclocked GC chipset in the Gamecube is what Wii games actually use (plus some (one?) extra chips for the controler).

    Fredi
    Mind Share Projects [ <- my latest projects ] [ my splash page -> ] Fredi Bach
    OS X Code (r,s) [ my Mac, web 2.0 and programming blog ]
    Not A Blog [ my personal weblog ]
    jMe Feed Aggregator [ my latest most famous project ]
    Web Command Line [ use the web like a real geek ]

  2. #22
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,387
    Actually, there was a really good article on why Nintendo went that route. The Wii was conceived from a standpoint of size and power consumption, not competing on graphics. R&D costs were much lower and they'll be turning a profit on launch day.

    MS and Sony spent way too much time hyping their new CPU's. Consumers shouldn't really care what's under the hood, it's the games and experience that count.
    "What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
    ...and now I have tape all over my face.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Genesis F5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Unallocated memory
    Posts
    1,845
    But where does the experience come from? The horsepower the processor / GPU relationship can put out. More HP usually (but not ncessarily) means improved physics, draw distances, and just a richer environment to engross the player in, in general.

    I think the real interest isn't necessarily in how realistic the game looks, but how things interact with each other. Players want realistic collision detection / real-time damage in racing games. They want to see parts fly off and smoke spewing from under the hood.

    But like I said - CPU / GPU !(necessarily)= performance. I've seen some amazing things pulled off in older hardware just because the development team was talented in milking the resources. It's just nice to have the edge in HP incase your development team isn't as equally adept.

  4. #24
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    4,779
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis F5
    I think the real interest isn't necessarily in how realistic the game looks, but how things interact with each other. Players want realistic collision detection / real-time damage in racing games. They want to see parts fly off and smoke spewing from under the hood.
    Yep! --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozVmlog2Kvk (Damn Youtube compression, but you get the idea)

    Fredi
    Mind Share Projects [ <- my latest projects ] [ my splash page -> ] Fredi Bach
    OS X Code (r,s) [ my Mac, web 2.0 and programming blog ]
    Not A Blog [ my personal weblog ]
    jMe Feed Aggregator [ my latest most famous project ]
    Web Command Line [ use the web like a real geek ]

  5. #25
    An Inconvenient Serving Size hurricaneone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    You know where
    Posts
    1,918
    Quote Originally Posted by PAlexC
    Actually, there was a really good article on why Nintendo went that route. The Wii was conceived from a standpoint of size and power consumption, not competing on graphics. R&D costs were much lower and they'll be turning a profit on launch day.

    MS and Sony spent way too much time hyping their new CPU's. Consumers shouldn't really care what's under the hood, it's the games and experience that count.
    I read that article you linked to about that - a good read and Nintendo will be better for it, not having the depth of pocket that M$ and Sony enjoy.

    As for your second point, agreed - most guys and girls won't care if it's a Cell chip, potato chip or chocolate chip running the show, just so long as the gameplay warrants the investment.

    They'll get there in the end.
    Stand by for emergency synapse rerouting

  6. #26
    Senior Member Genesis F5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Unallocated memory
    Posts
    1,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Subway
    Yep! link
    That. game. is. gorgeous!

  7. #27
    Senior Member Genesis F5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Unallocated memory
    Posts
    1,845
    Quote Originally Posted by hurricaneone
    ...potato chip
    Ironically, "Potato" was the internal name for the Dreamcast VMU. You can see it printed on the PCB if you open one of them up.

  8. #28

  9. #29
    Retired SCORM Guru PAlexC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,387
    What I want:

    Burnout gameplay + Motorstorm graphics + Wii controls
    "What really bugs me is that my mom had the audacity to call Flash Kit a bunch of 'inept jack-asses'." - sk8Krog
    ...and now I have tape all over my face.

  10. #30
    Information Architect Subway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    4,779
    Quote Originally Posted by PAlexC
    Burnout gameplay + Motorstorm graphics + Wii controls
    Have you seen Motorstorm played with a Nascar like car with boost and everything? It's fast like Burnout, lots of crashes, just with much better physics and oponent AI ... and you can use the sixaxis feature of the PS3, so it actualy is very much like "Burnout gameplay + Motorstorm graphics + Wii controls".

    Here's a video with such a car: http://youtube.com/watch?v=F2FyMkFckiE (boost used at about one minute ... oh and the player simple can't handle the speed )

    Fredi
    Mind Share Projects [ <- my latest projects ] [ my splash page -> ] Fredi Bach
    OS X Code (r,s) [ my Mac, web 2.0 and programming blog ]
    Not A Blog [ my personal weblog ]
    jMe Feed Aggregator [ my latest most famous project ]
    Web Command Line [ use the web like a real geek ]

  11. #31
    FK's Official Mac Hater jasonsplace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Provo, Utah
    Posts
    2,245
    It looks like Sony fixed the problem.
    Jason L. Wright
    I'm not that hard to imitate. Just make some random negative claim at Apple or anything else for that matter and then have nothing to back it up.

  12. #32
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    undecided.
    Posts
    18,986
    Fixing. It's not fixed yet.

    [ Hello ] | [ gerbick ] | [ Ω ]

  13. #33
    Senior Member Genesis F5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Unallocated memory
    Posts
    1,845
    Too bad Bleemcast for the Dreamcast never emulated as many PSX games. Just Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo 2, and Tekken 3. There is the universal beta disc out there, but it's buggy and a lot of games have sound issues / graphic glitches.

  14. #34
    Total Universe Mod jAQUAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    2,429
    First off, great thread. I've missed this.
    For me, BC is not a deciding factor when buying a console. I don't play my ps2 as it is, for some reason I'm gonna start when I get a ps3?
    It's all about who's going to deliver the experience... repeatedly. I'm pretty sure we're hardcore enough to know that gameplay is where its at.

    Motorsports looks amazing and really fun to boot. But racing launch titles are just tech-demos and it's not a sign of the coming library.

    Sony has an image to prove/uphold now and I can see lots of fun being sacrificed in order to do that. Look, even if the ps3 were the only console, I still wouldn't buy it based on the number of problems they've had. Sure it's tough breaking ground but I wont suffer for it.

    Now, given nintendos market share and budget, I think they made a genius decision. They didn't have much choice in part of it but deciding to not compete with pixel pushers in lieu of gameplay is well... what they said with the GC . The difference now is the number of 3rd parties showing support. It's risky being a 3rd party game dev and I would feel a lot safer as a CEO with the time investment on the wii.

    Now, of course I want vast draw distances and abundant physics too, I'm just willing to sacrifice picture perfect quality to get it more often. And I just feel the Wii will deliver more often than not, that all important fun factor. You know, that feeling you look for after the shinny graphics wear off?

    Will I take just any graphics? No, the art for brain age is down right insulting. But excitetruck? Good enough for me.

    I'm not a hater, I'll probably end with a ps3 as well in a years time.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Genesis F5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Unallocated memory
    Posts
    1,845
    I think the main issue with BC being such a prevalent feature is that a lot of people do enjoy their older games and will continue to enjoy older games as newer games continue storylines from their older counterparts. Not only that, but a lot of people have to sell their current console to get the latest / greatest and that's a huge amount of wasted money in their game library. Even if they can afford to front the initial pricetag, that's still three consoles cluttering up their entertainment console. The consumer wants it to be wrapped up all in one system.

    My biggest fear is that sure, Nintendo is getting the brunt of the 3rd party support (for now), but what if the appeal of the Wiimote wears off. People won't want to be completely interactive with their game 100% of the time with all of the swinging motions. I guess the next argument would be "well, they're going to offer a regular controller," but if that's the case, then it's just Gamecube 1.5 again. The only real attraction to the Wii is the remote. Sure the emulation part will be another option, but who wants to pay for games they've been getting / playing online for years now? Who knows, that may bring us back to my first part of "wanting it all on one system." Maybe this ability to download older games will be a catch. It's something similar to what the Phantom may have been.

    I just hope Nintendo can prove us doubters wrong and keep their support up because they're banking it all on the controller.

    I won't be buying any of them either for a long time. Probably not until we're closer to PS4 / XBOX 720 / Nintendo Thrii.

  16. #36
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    148
    After considering all arguments, I award the FK points to Gerbick.

    The point is not proportion of BC games. It's that the PS crowd criticized the BC issues of the 360 as if they had no issues of their own. In reality, their advantage in the debate was primarily that their machine came out second. Additionally, adding legacy chips to make old games work at a cost to the consumer seems like the shoddiest solution imagineable. And finally, I agree with Jaquan. BC basically means nothing to me. I loaded Halo 2 on the 360 once just to see how it looked. Played it for 5 minutes and have otherwise never thought about loading an old game... just... why? ebay your old console and buy a new game!
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  17. #37
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis F5
    My biggest fear is that sure, Nintendo is getting the brunt of the 3rd party support (for now), but what if the appeal of the Wiimote wears off. People won't want to be completely interactive with their game 100% of the time with all of the swinging motions. I guess the next argument would be "well, they're going to offer a regular controller," but if that's the case, then it's just Gamecube 1.5 again. The only real attraction to the Wii is the remote. Sure the emulation part will be another option, but who wants to pay for games they've been getting / playing online for years now? Who knows, that may bring us back to my first part of "wanting it all on one system." Maybe this ability to download older games will be a catch. It's something similar to what the Phantom may have been.
    I thought the wiimote could actually be used like a traditional remote as well?

    Do you happen to know what the business model for those old games is? I doubt it will work if its a pay-per-game set up like on the 360. People do like to see older games. I just think they will need to be able to jump from game to game at no extra cost since its half nostalgia and just seeing the game in action that they get. I knew a guy that had a tweaked out xbox with every emulated game thats existed since 1960. Even the girls at the party were getting into that.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  18. #38
    Senior Member WannaBe_80z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    over my shoes and under my hat
    Posts
    3,887
    I am sure all the Wiimote features will be fun but sometimes I just wanna relax and not have to do this ALL the time. Is there images of normal wiimotes? or can those just be used normally with no motion crap?
    "Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."- T. McKenna

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width

HTML5 Development Center