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Thread: your graphics...how?

  1. #1
    Please, Call Me Bob trogdor458's Avatar
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    your graphics...how?

    anyone know of a decent graphics program (i tried 3d max, but it doesnt work with my computer)

    i know people like everfornever and renderhj arent just freedrawing these things, they're far too nice, and the best ive come up with "freehand" was this:

    most of that's just the pencil tool (you can tell too)

    so...whats your guys secret weapon?

  2. #2
    M.D. mr_malee's Avatar
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    no gradients, or limited gradients

    people will say: Illustrator for Vector Art, i don't like it, Flash works for me

    Photoshop for pixel art

    3D: probably 3Dmax for Polygon Modelling or Maya which i've heard is good for NURBS
    Last edited by mr_malee; 11-20-2006 at 11:55 PM.
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  3. #3
    Ich lerne jede Tag etwas Neues Evaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_malee
    people will say: Illustrator for Vector Art, i don't like it, Flash works for me
    NURBS
    I agree. Illustrator can be very difficult to use compared to photoshop.

  4. #4
    Please, Call Me Bob trogdor458's Avatar
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    3d, thats what im looking for, as i assume thats what people are using
    ill try googling for those when i have the time

    an awesome 3d program can provide realistic objects, not to mention animations can be done much quicker

    im wanting something like this because as you can tell im not too good at pictures...what a shame

    EDIT: did a quick image search, saw some interesting stuff on maya (cant use 3dmax as i said earlier, and it took so long to download too)
    im hopin for something good, i find its mostly good textures that bring a shape to life though
    Last edited by trogdor458; 11-20-2006 at 11:58 PM.

  5. #5
    ism BlinkOk's Avatar
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    swift3d.
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  6. #6
    Please, Call Me Bob trogdor458's Avatar
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    ...this thread? or your post?
    if youve got something to say just say it, unless you accidently posted (of course, that would mean you had nothing to say)

    gah!! the pain of having ideas flow through your head like gravy and no mashpotatoes to dump them on!!

    ???wait...what?

    EDIT: looked at that swift 3d thing, looks like its the full thing, vector AND 3d; amazing

    i still wont know till i try (comeon...christmas, youre currently my only source of income!!), when you got samples right there for your veiwing pleasure, it seems easy, but you never know

    thank you for the blink linkok!!
    Last edited by trogdor458; 11-21-2006 at 12:07 AM.

  7. #7
    Banned XareoX's Avatar
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    well i know everend is a free hands some of his things i think look at his art work and he also uses 3ds max

  8. #8
    Please, Call Me Bob trogdor458's Avatar
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    ...
    it was just a metaphor, gravy (or ideas) belong well with games (or mashpotatoes), and my head's bunching up with them without a median in which for it to flow through (perhaps ill try out some cool bitmap expirements later)

    and i dont do drugs anyways...
    thanx for telling me about maya and swift3d though, both look like fine 3d programs and ill try out the trial versions tomorrow, assuming i have no major homework of course; my english grades a C right now, and one grades nearing a B (and you know how one fraction of a point can affect your gpa)

    anyways, i would say goodnight but that seems strange for a place like this
    g2g

  9. #9
    Banned XareoX's Avatar
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    o and there is some free modeling software out there to but i dont know if its any good.

  10. #10
    Zombie Coder EvilKris's Avatar
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    MilkShape 3d? That's a free and easy to use 3d modeller.
    Try using references for your artwork as opposed to just drawing on a blank page. For example, do google searches for similar images.

    You know, 3ds MAX is worth the, ahem, download.

  11. #11
    Senior Member DayDream's Avatar
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    My 5c on this reoccuring topic:

    Don't use flash for art - it's a lot harder to keep control of you objects and there are limited tools when it comes to modifying the vector graphics.

    Freehand, Illustrator or CorelDraw are some of the tools that allow a more user friendly and artistic approach to the vector art. Personally I don't like the first two due to gui, export, tool and personal reasons. CorelDraw gives me the tools I need to create art quickly and without much fuss but then again it's 15years of habit and my personal opinion.

    On the bitmap site there are the same major players Adobe and Corel (where the Corel PhotoPaint come with the package and is a great tool including animation abilities). To me working with layers is an essential part and big help for easy editing and damage control.
    The next lot of tools in the bitmap section would be Promotion and other pixel game oriented tools - working with a limited palette and geared more towards the phone and console development.
    Free tools like graphicsgal and gimp do the trick if you want to keep it simple.

    Macromedia's Fireworks is imho not really a tool to create game graphics but comes in handy when there are menus, buttons, website elements to be build.

    3D tools are a different class altogether and range from the hobbist to the ultimate pro and cover the widest price range. If you want to get into or stay in the industry a "standard" program is essential in the long run - 3Dmax and Maya would be the ones to look at - and save up for.
    Further down the ladder are Cinema4D, Lightwave, Softimage, Truespace and others - good, professional but not industry standards like the two mentioned before.
    Next step down would be Carrara, Pixels3D, Shade - covering a lower price segment - followed by free or close to free tools such as milkshape or silo.

    Again it's a matter of how much you need them and how much money you are willing to invest ( always assuming the "right" way to do it ).

    Personally I use 3D stuff in a limited way and have swift and silo installed as well as unwrap3D. It covers most of my needs.

    As a nice addition I would suggest a 3D landscape renderer like Bryce or Vue and maybe another specialist like Poser to cover more bases.

    Now the biggest problem will be to find enough time to master 1 or 2 of them let alone all of them...

  12. #12
    ....he's amazing!!! lesli_felix's Avatar
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    Poser is great for quick and easy 3d characters. Other than that I've only ever used photoshop and flash for drawing anything.

  13. #13
    Zombie Coder EvilKris's Avatar
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    I used to use Poser 90% of the time, but found it quite buggy and also limited in how effectively you can morph the standard characters from their original mesh. So nowadays I texture it in Poser and skin/rig it up in Max. Poser is good for creating animations but as far as I know doesn't support mocap BIP files so I get all that done in Max.

  14. #14
    ********* mentuat's Avatar
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    I do all pixel work in pro-motion and would certainly encourage others to do the same!

    http://www.cosmigo.com/promotion/?Home+%28Pro+Motion%29

  15. #15
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    of course I work mainly with commercial software but that´s because most agencies and my university work and teach them and most of them are one of the best of the market.
    Anyway if you for some reason rather like to pick a low cost or better said a absolutely free version of some tools take a look at:
    - Blender combined with Yafray
    - Blender video tutorials (easy for anyone)
    - blender gallery (what is possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by DayDream
    Don't use flash for art - it's a lot harder to keep control of you objects and there are limited tools when it comes to modifying the vector graphics.
    depends,- I for example have the best expieriences in Flash when it comes to fast and complex vector art.
    I think that Freehand, Illustrator Coreldraw Xara,- and all those other vector packages lack 1 big feature compared to flash and that is the auto shape recognition once a area is closed by faces or lines.
    here are some detail shot of older flash vectors I did in the past:

    basicly I never use lines in vector graphics because they are by default a bad factor in a vector graphic imo. because they are to relative meaning they can change anytime as soon as you rip the postscript convert it into a different format or open it in a different package.
    The reason why I use Flash for such vector graphics (massive shape details) is because flash is just 5-10 times faster (with the right technique) as the regular vector tools out there.


    as for general tools:

    I own a wacom tablet (wich is worth the money btw.) and usually use some inks pens markers and pencils between 2b and h1.

    so if you already have a drawing (wich is nearly always the source of my works,- a sketch of what I want) you might think of how you could pimp it up?
    I really like openCanvas for example for their screentone and awesome smear brush effect

    the upper details are inkings I enhanced with digital screentones in openCanvas.
    On this japanese subsite of openCanvas you can download all the history files of the artworks posted there and then watch like a video in openCanvas,- every action and pen postion is saved in that file and therefore can be played back as an animation,- check it out if you are into that kind of art (jap. manga/ pop paint art)


    Photoshop
    There is simply no better application as photshop in it´s genre. Photopaint, paintshop, gimp, waffle,... lack all the amazing interface and functionality PS has.
    So all interfaces I usually always create in Photoshop before slicing it and import it into for example flash.

    the above screenshot is from a manga DTP tool (no joke!) I once started that could render vector screentones, speedlines, panels baloons and many other things using the drawing API.

    but photoshop is also great if you have a graphic tablet (wacom all the way)

    (booth paintings done in Photoshop,- but like I said before I always draw with pencils a sketch before doing anything on the computer,- it usually improves it alot)

    as for 3dsmax
    3dsmax is usually the first tool you get teached if you take courses for professional 3d because compared to the other big ones (maya, XSI, houdini,..) or the more specialized modelers (modo, silo,mudbox, zBrush,...) its easier to start with and most other tools have lots in common with 3dsmax.

    - the first pic was of a rigged character I created for a flash game,- max has some nice bone tools and animating is also pretty neat
    - the 2nd is a rendering with the default scanline renderer wich can be pretty awesome if you know where to tweak


    so those are some of my weapons,-
    basicly avoid things that other´s would imediantly recognize (flash gradients, photoshop default shadow effects, photoshop lens flare effects,...) and try something out yourself or avoid at all costs tutorials that show you the cliché effects.

  16. #16
    Hey Timmy!!! walsher's Avatar
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    I tend to use Flash for graphics. I like going for a cartoony like, and it works for me.

    After seeing a tutorial from render, I'm looking into incorparating 3D max into a game in the future. I just got Blender, I'll have to see how it works. May even look into getting the Swift plug-in for Max.

    Still trying to get my hands around pixels. So can't say too much about them.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    Render: Please say you are a freelancer? ;-)

    Trogdor, you made every mistake possible in your sample up there:

    - Never use the "line" tool. It just looks very amateur to have a fixed width line around everything. It lacks style. One of the basic things they teach in drawing classes is to vary the "weight" of lines when you draw. By "weight" they mean thickness. Look at Render's anime girl for example. See how things are outlined in VARYING thicknesses? The black "ink" and thickness helps define things and gives them shape and dimension.

    - Error 2: Gradient fills. Again they are a cop-out to proper shading. A simple hard-edge cartoon fill looks a million times better than a crappy computer gradient.

    I use 90% Photoshop for my graphics (bitmaps all the way!)

  18. #18
    Hype over content... Squize's Avatar
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    Can I just say, and I know dd touched on it, it's not so much a case of the tools which are used, it's the persons ability.

    If you're no good at art, then no matter what you use it's only going to be at a certain quality.
    Just 'cause someone's got Flash installed it doesn't make them coders, same applies with images ( And sound ).

    Sorry, but this point never seems to be raised in these "How do I do pixel art / whatever" threads.

    Squize.
    Last edited by Squize; 11-21-2006 at 11:59 AM.

  19. #19
    Truimagz.com everfornever's Avatar
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    exactly squizie.......

    An artist such as I can make awesome things in paint.

    But as to my favorite programs for drawing xara x1 is pretty much all I use, I use paintshop pro for my blendings though.

    If you look through my art book in my sig though you will see that even with a ballpoint and a pencil I can draw up some crazy stuff, so......

  20. #20
    Pumpkin Carving 2008 ImprisonedPride's Avatar
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    It was funny, because the topic starter beat me to this exact same question by about 5 minutes. I had actually wrote up a big post but because I was waiting for a reply I was refreshing the topic list...

    Anyhow... yeah I'm wouldn't say I'm proficient in photoshop, but I'm not newb-ficient either. I just don't have the creativity graphics wise to put out even small sprites for games. Then again... I've failed nearly every art class I've ever attempted. Guess I'm just not an artist.

    I suppose though that if I ever get done with my degree (it's feels like it's taking eternity) then I assume I'll be working with graphical artists so I won't have to worry about this sort of thing. In the meantime, I'll have to stick to crap vectors and free sprites.
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