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Thread: A tale of two (sucky) logos...

  1. #1
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    A tale of two (sucky) logos...

    Hey gang. It's me again, back to pick your collective brain. Still workin on my client's site (I've made some real progess on it, but I moved it to a new url so as not to display my messy thought process to the world who happen to click on the link in my other thread here - which is now dead).

    I'm completely scraping the bottom of the barrel here and thought I'd solicit some ideas/advice. I've created a couple of logos for the site and am just not happy with either one. The client's music label is called sugar water music, etc. His music for the most part is very stripped down acoustic singer/songwriter stuff, and he wanted that organic feel to translate into his site. Also he hates capitalization.

    Here are the logo's I've created thus far. They are for web use only at this point, so they match the color scheme I've got going on in the site:





    I just quickly created these from Flash, which is why they are pixelated... on the site they are completely vector. Also the first one has a masked ripple effect.

    I'm not in love with either one of these.. the problem for me stems from the sheer length of the name.

    If you are still reading at this point, I applaud you, since I tend to be very long winded.

    I'm so out of ideas it's not funny... anyone have any suggestions?

    If you'd like to see the current iteration of the site you can see it here:

    link

    Thanks everyone for any ideas/suggestions!

    -Sandy

  2. #2
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    At the moment it looks like just menu buttons and not a logo (the first one). i think it needs something to hold 'em together. Perhaps have a little visual logo that can unify all those words, then you can place the name along side or below it. Or Have some sort of borders or frame around it. I dont think reflections are neccessary, it only makes the already swirling type more hard to read

    The second one is just too hard to read, plus it looks amatur-ish. I dont like it at all , sorry.

    -juju

  3. #3
    Senior Member Black_phoenix's Avatar
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    How about a block of sugar standing in a small puddle disolving slightly, and have the words under it or at the side. also possibly use a droplet...

    bp

  4. #4
    Senior Member RUSHVision's Avatar
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    Well, I definitely don't like the first one. It just looks far too plain and is not indicative of what it is supposed to represent. I do rather like the second one, but I don't know if it reads well enough to call it a masterpiece. You still have to work the 'etc' in there somewhere too, don't you? What I do like about it though, is the fact that I think it's closer to where you eventually want to end up, in that it's a more illlustrative form than just plain text.

    I think you also want to consider how you are going to tie all your separate elements together. Right now you have three distinct and separate elements to your design...the menu, the logo, and the music player...and unfortunately none of them are currently harmonizing with one another. One thing that might help is if you were to add a few vines and maybe a small flower or two to the player. You may even want to try the same thing with the logo. It would also be nice if you/we had an idea of what you planned to do for the content sections. What did you have in mind for that?
    mrush


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  5. #5
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses everyone!

    I'm am in total agreement with everything you all said.

    The first one was really never meant to be anything more than a stop gap, but when I showed my initial layout to my client he professed his love for the ripple effect and in his eyes that was that. Peronally, I don't like the ripple effect. I think it's too busy and clashes with the other stuff I've got going.

    As for logo two...I took a quick stab at it and quickly realized although it looks more like a logo versus a title, it wasn't going to work either. That's when I decided to bring you all in.

    BP, thanks for your sugar cube idea. I'll definitely play with that theme and see if I can make it work.

    Rush, you made a very valid point about the distinctness of the design elements. I too agree that the MP3 player specifically is out of synch with the menu. It was given to me by a friend of mine and I did a quick reskin to get something up there. I've never used a player before so I wanted to understand the functionality of it before I focused on the look. I think in it's current form it is too clunky and not organic enough, plus when you add the equalizer graphic it looks busy. I'd like something substantial, so that my pollen/particle/thingys can bounce off of it, but something that blends better with the site. It's on the todo list.

    As for the question on content, well I've got one page mostly finished (sans transition). If you click on the Contact flower you can see it. Other than that, my client hasn't supplied any content yet, so I'm playing the waiting game.

    I don't have really any solid ideas on the look and feel of each page yet. Right now, the sight has a very asian influence, which I really didn't intend on doing, and now I find hard to escape from. I know he wants the site to be messy, as that is his music style. I want to do something free form and organic, but still rock-starrish at the same time (hence the pink and the vector stuff).

    The next page I was planning on tackling is the pics page... my first thought is either a book or like a wall calendar where you turn the pages to see each pic.

    I appreciate your ideas and comments. Please don't feel like you need to design my site for me. As you no doubt can tell I'm new to the game and am trying to put together my portfolio, so I'm still baby-stepping my way through all of this. You all have been a great help!

    -Sandy

  6. #6
    Senior Member RUSHVision's Avatar
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    I hadn't done it until now since I tend to surf with the sound off, but I just had a listen to his music and...hmmm...I have to unfortunately say that I don't think the current design represents his style of music very well. Your design is calm and serene, whereas his music is rather chaotic and as you said, messy.

    This came to my attention when I went back to take a look at the contact page. I actually really like what you have going on there, but you are right in saying it's giving out a bit of an asian vibe. That would be cool, and what you have now does fit with the rest of the design quite well, but after listening to the music I have to wonder if perhaps you are going in the wrong direction.

    The way I see it...and this is just my opinion...is that you either need to add something that takes what you have to the place where his music lives, or you need to rethink the entire thing. Since I am fairly certain the latter is out of the question, I would look into ways to 'busy up' your current design, possibly by adding some abstract elements. I know it probably makes a lot of sense to you to to add things that seem to flow or fit with what you have there currently, but keep in mind that what may seem like completely dissimilar elements can harmonize beautifully if properly handled. If you have access to more of his music maybe you could use something from one of his songs for inspiration.

    Take a look at some of the images in this RollCanvas. It contains a lot of great examples of many seemingly contrasting elements being used in harmony with each other to create powerful and compelling imagery.

    Good luck and remember to have fun
    mrush


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  7. #7
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    Rush, thanks so much for your comments (and that link is kicka$$)!

    What you haven't heard is the majority of his stuff... I put those songs in there because it was a small sampling of what I had on hand. Most of his stuff is very acoustic singer/songwriter stuff, and when I get more of his catalog, the plan is to find songs that better match the theme to the site (with maybe a few surprises thrown in for contrast).

    When he and I met to discuss his plans for the site, the verbage he was throwing me was everything I've stated... natural, organic ... you know artsy fartsy stuff. So that was the direction I took...

    That being said, I think your opinion is a very valid one. My original idea was to create that messy feel by making each content page completely different from each other, but in such a way that it worked (what you said). It seems however that I've gone so far down one path that I may have gotten myself stuck. I'll work on it and see if I can bring some of those elements into the shell as well...

    The other issue I think I may have is space... Those vines take up a lot of frickin real estate... and I'm a bit afriad that I'll lose valuable content space if I continue to monkey with it. This is just me talking out loud at this point... I'll figure something out.

    OK, back to the logo...

    Take 3



    I know it's not it yet, but is it getting closer?

    Thanks again for everyone's assistance! You all rock!

    -Sandy

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    The sugarcube logo you got 'might' be getting there but it isnt there yet, know what i mean? personally i would not have the text title with transparent background, i would put it on some sort of organic background like water, clouds, wood textures or something like that.

    How about have the texts on a wooden sign so that your overall site theme would be like in the gardens theme? I think it might work as the songs are acoustic right? Like listening to acoustic music in the gardens with ponds, vines, trees, birds and bees etc

    I would suggest you find the theme and stick with it with your site. At the moment organic, nature is your theme so maybe you can apply the organic theme into other modules as well, like have a small butterfly on your player or someting. But not too much on everything.

    I like the contact page transitions, however i suggest the background should dim to dark first, then the light from the lamp slowly appears. More dramatic!!!

    -juju

  9. #9
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    Hey Juju,

    Thanks for the suggestions! I agree that I still haven't found "the" logo yet. I'll play around with it some more and try your suggestion of putting it on something.

    Also thanks for the transition suggestion. Actually, what you described is pretty much exactly what I had already planned to do. I just haven't put in my transition yet. You'll notice now it just appears and dissapears... I usually get all my stuff like I like it and then work backwords into the transition. I'm glad to know that it's a good idea though! Great minds think alike, huh?

    -Sandy

  10. #10
    Senior Member RUSHVision's Avatar
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    Despite my tendency to speak bluntly and to tell the truth as I see it when no one else wants to hear it, I take no joy in telling someone more than twice that what they are doing just isn't working. It's even worse when I like the person I have to say this to, so I'll admit that I chose to let someone else take a stab at it this time. I was also having trouble finding just the right words to describe exactly what was wrong with it and why, but I'm going to give it a shot now.

    There are a couple of prime factors at work here, in my opinion. The first is the look of the logo itself. This is no small thing, and it's basically what you/we have been discussing throughout the course of this conversation. So factor number one is that you want to come up this a design that accurately reflects this artist's music, and perhaps even his personality. You certainly want it to have the right 'flavor', as well as have a nice visual impact. At the moment it's lacking that impact. The words have no meaning and impart no excitement.

    The second factor however, and one that is being far too overlooked in my opinion, is the fact that you say you are only designing a 'web logo' right now. Even if that is the case, do you really think he's going to completely redesign his identity once you have established it? For a musician, several different applications for his logo spring to mind, other than being used for a web site. One would be any kind of print medium. This would include cd covers, posters/flyers, and possibly some signage. He might even want to make up some t-shirts. Unless he planned on going through this entire process again...and having the new stuff completely differ from his web presence...then he will be using what you are designing right now. He might not use the hummingbird, vines, or whatever, but chances are he would be using the logo at the very least. For this reason you shouldn't create a logo that you know won't work well with these mediums.

    I really think you need to do something else with the text. That font just isn't projecting the right tone. It also doesn't have enough weight to carry it's message from something like a banner hanging above a stage for instance, or if it were to be printed on a drum or on a flyer stapled to a telephone pole. So he can say he just wants a web site right now, but it would be the competent designer who ignored that and gave him something that would stand the test of time and be appropriate for whatever medium was required in the future in addition to also being completely appropriate for the current venue.

    Just my 2c with an added shot of unfettered honesty. Do with it what you will.
    mrush


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  11. #11
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    Wow, I think that was the nicest and most tactful way anyone has ever told me I sucked before.

    Rush (and anyone else for that matter), please don't feel you need to pull any punches. My goal as it relates to design is to get better at my craft, and I'll be the first to tell anyone that I have a lonnnnnnng way to go. I couldn't be happier when I get thoughtful, constructive feedback such as yours. I see talented folks like yourself as design mentors and role models, and as such your 2 cents is priceless to me. Thank you for your honesty.

    That being said, I'm working on adding some elements to the shell that I think will really bring the site together, in way that is contiguous with my theme while still giving me that rock star edge. I think it's going to look really cool when finished and will allow me to see more clearly the direction the logo needs to go.

    Thanks for everyone's help. I'll be posting the new stuff next week for the next round of suggestions, that is, if you all don't mind the continuation of your critiquing services!

    -Sandy

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    HUH? pea3698's Avatar
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    Just to build on the sugar cube idea. You could have the sugar cube in the shape of a music note. Maybe one on either side as cubes and then a sugar cube music note in the middle. And I agree with the font comments. It just doesn't work.
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    Senior Member RUSHVision's Avatar
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    Glad to hear it. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
    mrush


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  14. #14
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    OK I think I may have something here

    Round 3 (or 50... who knows???):

    I spent some time last week thinking about Rush's comments about how do I make the site messy while still keeping it harmonious to better match the musician's style of play. After thinking about that, and all of the other wonderful ideas/critiques I've received thus far, I decided to add some very bold pieces to the site. It's still not 100% done, but I'm very pleased with the new additions so far.

    So, if you'd be so kind, tell me what you think:

    new (and I feel) improved!

    Of course none of the transitions are in yet. I plan on doing some cool stuff with shape masking so that the new stuff moves around to better accomodate the content (which I still haven't received). I think the Asian vibe I was giving off has been greatly diminished, and you'll all be ahppy to know that I got rid of the font that everyone hated so much.

    Although I'm pleased with it, I'd still love any critiques/criticism/ideas that you all may have.

    Thanks again for everyone's input. I was hesistant to post this second thread because I didn't want to come across as someone who designed by commitee, but I'm very glad I did!

    -Sandy

  15. #15
    Senior Member Black_phoenix's Avatar
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    I like it!

    like the logo so much better, font not sure of, but i bet there is a better one out there.

    love the colour change for pages, also like the transition from contact to home pages, the lighting effect works well.

    nice work!

    bp

  16. #16
    Senior Member RUSHVision's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's the stuff.

    For that logo, how about cutting out the word 'sugar' from the cube so you can see through it? I would keep the white highlight on the bottom edges, but knock out the black part. Just a thought and it might not work, but I think it could look cool. If that doesn't look right, then try moving it down a touch so that you can't see the shadow in the open part of the 'g'. The sugar cubes themselves look like they could do with just a bit of sharpening as well, to better match the crispness of the rest of the graphics. Nice upgrade, though.

    I would also think about scaling down 'music, etc.' from the bottom left until it was flush with the left edge of 'water'. Personally I think that would block things out a little better and I like the idea of getting the left side of that off of the sugar cube.

    I am really liking those color changes that occur when you click the various content sections. I also think you did a great job of 'messing' things up. Overall, quite well done.
    mrush


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  17. #17
    He has risen! lefteyewilly's Avatar
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    hey sandy, it's been a while since i last saw this site, and i have to say...this is looking very cool.

    i like what you've done with everything.

  18. #18
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    Hells Yeah!

    I knew you kids would like it. I'm very enamored with the new stuff and I feel rejuvenated by it. I was so stuck in my little rut before, so I am just ecstatic that I asked for your collective guidance! A thousand thank yous to each of you for your input! It just goes to show that with a small bit of imagination, 1107 lines of code (so far), and an army of talented designers weighing in, anyone can make a cool website.

    BP, I am so with you on the font. I work on most of the stuff for the site at my real job during my lunch break and stuff, so I don't really get a chance to think on the day's changes/additions until I publish and look at it at home. I like that font for the logo proper, but it does not work for the buttons and other stuff. I've read (here in this very forum I think), that you should try to stick to 3 fonts max: a serif, a sans serif and an italic. Does that apply in conjunction with your logo as well? Or can I treat the logo almost as an image separate from the rest of the text? I think with all the stuff I've got going on now a simple font (either serif or sans) is prolly the way to go. Hopefully I'll get a chance to play with it today.

    Rush, spot on about the fuzzy cubes. I saw that as soon as I put it in, but thought I'd try to sneak it past to see if it blended with the rest of the vector stuff. The original image I got that cube from wasn't all that great to begin with, but I liked the imagery of that cube versus the others I found. As an admitted PhotoShop novice, if I sharpen the edges of my current image will that do the trick? Or will it come off looking worse?

    Also, thanks for your suggestions on tightening up the logo. I'll definitely scale down the 'music, etc.' as you suggested and I'll see what I can come up with regarding the cut out. Thanks again for the ideas!!!

    I just can't say thanks enough to everyone who's chimed in. I honestly feel that without your insight, the site would have blended into the background and would not have done my client or myself justice. Now comes the frustrating part... waiting for content...

    Thanks again,
    Sandy

  19. #19
    Senior Member RUSHVision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyrivers
    As an admitted PhotoShop novice, if I sharpen the edges of my current image will that do the trick? Or will it come off looking worse?
    I don't know what version of Photoshop you have, but if you have access to the Smart Sharpen filter I would use that. Otherwise, Unsharp Mask should do the trick. You could also conceivably use the Sharpen Tool that is nestled in amongst the Blur and Smudge Tools.
    mrush


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  20. #20
    yeah yeah yeah sandyrivers's Avatar
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    Thanks yo! I'm using CS, but the Unsharp Mask seems to be doing the trick.

    Also, I forgot to ask for two more opinions in my previous post (I got long winded and forgot about it). Real quick:

    1) I think the MP3 player no longer looks so out of place. What do you all think? Should I fuss with it or leave it be?

    2) I was thinking of adding some of the scroll work to the top vines originally, but after looking at the current product I'm not so sure it's necessary. Do you think adding a few white shadows up top will blend the top with the bottom better, or just make the buttons that much harder to read?

    I'm playing around with fonts as we speak... er type. Plain jane just wasn't working in the button array... so I'm trying some simple script...

    Thanks again for the help, Rush!

    -Sandy

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