Gun Control

[random25]

just checking to see if there really is a maximum number of quotes per thread.

That is a good idea.

[blazes816]

vB need to have a max quoted words option so that anything more than said amount gets changed to "this sentence is one word over ... max"

[silverx2]

http://www.drudge.com/news/93463/sel...itzerland#more


i do believe thats checkmate.

[MagnusVS]

Oh come on silverx2. I was finally going to stop debating about this issue, as I don't see it will come to and end anywhere. Still, you try to make fun of other people here. If we should discuss an issue like this, shouldn't I use statistics? In this case, saying what you think obviously isn't enough. So if I shouldn't point to statistics or say what I think, what should I do then? Find some celebrity quotes?

I could have added several lines in your cartoon, but I won't lower myself to that level.

[TheOriginalFlashDavo]

Oh come on silverx2. I was finally going to stop debating about this issue, as I don't see it will come to and end anywhere. Still, you try to make fun of other people here. If we should discuss an issue like this, shouldn't I use statistics? In this case, saying what you think obviously isn't enough. So if I shouldn't point to statistics or say what I think, what should I do then? Find some celebrity quotes?

Seems quite logical to me and others in this thread, including those who support the current gun laws. Stats have been - and will always be - used by both sides of the argument. And both have used them in basically the same way.

Some folk can discuss an issue. Some folk need to attack the person. Nothing new for the CL.

Oh, and before the obvious reply: Yes, I did react and do the same thing in response, which in the end makes me no better than anyone else that did so. But let's see if anyone else will put their hand up and admit what they did in the first place. I doubt it. And as I said, nothing new.

Oh, and merely because you've bothered to add one more stupid post directed at me silverx2, I'll try to give you a clue with regards to your petty accusation that I don't care about 30 innocents killed in a bloodbath merely - it appears - because I didn't know them personally: If that's the nature of me then why would it be, please enlighten me oh wise one, that I have sold everything at home (wasn't much!), given up my career, and moved to Kenya to help a community of - guess what? - people I don't personally know? Money? Fame? Glory? Yep, plenty of that hereabouts!

Anyway, I'll take some of wise old Marcus' advice and do what I should have done ages ago, and "not be active in this debate anymore".

[silverx2]

Seems quite logical to me and others in this thread, including those who support the current gun laws. Stats have been - and will always be - used by both sides of the argument. And both have used them in basically the same way.

Some folk can discuss an issue. Some folk need to attack the person. Nothing new for the CL.

Oh, and before the obvious reply: Yes, I did react and do the same thing in response, which in the end makes me no better than anyone else that did so. But let's see if anyone else will put their hand up and admit what they did in the first place. I doubt it. And as I said, nothing new.

Oh, and merely because you've bothered to add one more stupid post directed at me silverx2, I'll try to give you a clue with regards to your petty accusation that I don't care about 30 innocents killed in a bloodbath merely - it appears - because I didn't know them personally: If that's the nature of me then why would it be, please enlighten me oh wise one, that I have sold everything at home (wasn't much!), given up my career, and moved to Kenya to help a community of - guess what? - people I don't personally know? Money? Fame? Glory? Yep, plenty of that hereabouts!

Anyway, I'll take some of wise old Marcus' advice and do what I should have done ages ago, and "not be active in this debate anymore".

please davo enlighten me when did I say you didnt care about those 30 people.

I dont think the coffee lounge is the right place for a person like you. Might i suggest some other sort of forum, like an "Lets argue, for the sake of arguing" forum, or a last word competition forum.

as for not being active in this debate, you said that like 2 pages into it, and you kept coming back to get the last word. i no doubt will see you in here again to say something in a big long post that really only required a 2 sentence reply.

[silverx2]

so you have nothing to say about the swiss all having automatic weapons and the lowest amount of crime?

[MagnusVS]

Or you still haven't got any suggestions on other reasons to the american rates?

I don't think firearms is the only factor. Factors like mental health care, amount of ethnic groups and cultures etc. probably are parts of the reason, but I think that the amount of guns (especially combined with other factors) have something to say.

In this debate I have said my opinion, and nothing is going to change that. Neither does it seems that you will change yours. But what you should do is to come with some explanations yourself instead of just criticize others.

[silverx2]

your not listening.

Places where you can easily get guns have less crime then places where it is hard to get guns.

the reason being is people will not commit crimes against other people when the other people will shoot them.

its simple logic.

crime goes up in places where you can not get guns because people are not able to defend themselves against other people

if i walk in to a store with a hand gun, im going to be able to rob that store.

if i walk into a store with a hand gun, and the person behind the counter has a gun, and the guy grabbing a soda has a gun, and the girl reading the magazines also has a gun, there is a good chance im gonna get shot if i try and rob that store.

how hard is it to understand that.

[MagnusVS]

Whatever the reason is, it's not that easy... Still, you haven't given any suggestions about the high rates in the US. I have asked 4-5 times...

[silverx2]

i HAVE given you reasons.

Illegal weapons brought INTO the country by people from south america.
Gun laws that are TOO strict
BAD Parenting
POOR community awareness
GANG warfare

untill you can give statistics that show how many LEGAL guns are used in crimes/murders your argument is worth about nothing. You cant lump the united states as if it was one entitey, we are made up of differnt states with differnt laws, governed using the same bill of rights for everybody.

now tell me why the swiss have such a low crime rate, while maintaing giving every buddy automatic weapons.

[MagnusVS]

I think Switzerland isn't as multicultural as America, and haven't got the same amounts of social problems. There are probably other factors as well, but I don't know that much about their politics...

Still, the focus is on Canada and Switzerland, which has high gun rates, but low murder rates. There are many other countries that have strict gun politics, but still much less crime than the US. Could you explain why it is like that?

[discs79]

It would seem that most of the guns Owened by the swiss are kept after miltary service and are stored at home.

To be able to carry a gun (on the streets) you have to have a permit, which it would seem is hard to get..

" stating plausibly the need to carry firearms to protect oneself, other people, or real property from a specified danger "

" passing an examination proving both weapon handling skills and knowledge regarding lawful use of the weapon "

Also the permit only last 5 years...

does that help?

Wiki

[silverx2]

Illegal weapons brought INTO the country by people from south america(highest amounts of firearm murders).
Gun laws that are TOO strict
BAD Parenting
POOR community awareness
GANG warfare

[MagnusVS]

So other countries doesn't have any problems with those factors?

[silverx2]

how many illegal weapons are used in the crime for the us.

[discs79]

how many illegal weapons are used in the crime for the us.

Couldn't find any resent results

But it would seem alot of guns used in gun crime are illegal

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

* a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
* a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
* family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

Source

[FlashLackey]

So other countries doesn't have any problems with those factors?

do you see how your ideas for why crime rates are different in other countries that have high gun ownership contradict your apparent basis for guns causing crime?

if you think that health care, ethnic groups (???), etc. may affect crime rates more than gun ownership, what basis to you have in suggesting that the US crime rate has anything to do with guns? by your own observations, it could be that the US really just has a mental health care problem and guns are irregardless.

im not sure why you keep asking for people to explain the high US rate. the implication of that question is a common logical fallacy.

[david petley]

...it could be that the US really just has a mental health care problem and guns are irregardless

Yes, but what a dangerous combination...mental health problems and relatively easy access to high-powered automatic weapons (particularly in Virginia, which reportedly has the most lax gun controls of all of the states).

david

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Yes, but what a dangerous combination...mental health problems and relatively easy access to high-powered automatic weapons (particularly in Virginia, which reportedly has the most lax gun controls of all of the states).

david

living in Virginia, i can assure you, legally you do NOT have easy access to high-powered automatic weapons. No where in the u.s. do you have easy legal access to automatic weapons.

you do have easy access to high-powered semi-automatic weapons though. The vt massacre was done with a .22 and a 9mm.. neither of which i would really call high-power.