How can you deal with as3?

[MyFriendIsATaco]

It depends, for easy things, its just faster to code things in AS2 than 3.You have say what you want about the simplicity, but there's just a lack of resources for it at this moment and it is a lot more verbose.

The more verbose, the more control. Look at the higher languages like C. You have to tell the language to do EVERYTHING. No guesswork involved. The more guesswork involved in the interpreter, the slower things are. Plus, the control thing... I don't like fighting to get something done the way I want it done.

I don't find putting code in clips messy at all. Putting it all in the first frame is ok for me also. The "search and find function" is far more efficient if its in one place rather than in 50 seperate files. Its especially true if you use the IDE and really doesn't apply if you use flashdevelop.

For one, get out of the IDE. It's horrible. You keep mentioning FlashDevelop and implying that it's better, so use that. I used it back years ago when I was in the Windows world, and it was awesome. Find & Replace across multiple files is common for most other text editors out there. FlashDevelop included. Try using Find and Replace when you have code on your individual MovieClips. Also, being able to Find and Replace with a regex pattern comes in handy in some critical times. The IDE can't do that. The list can go on and on.

This is really not about the world moving on or things getting better. AS3 Generally tailors itself to professional programmers, AS2 tailors itself better to Hobbyists.

Bingo, leave it at that, and move on. Pick a side and quit complaining.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Oh, and your point about PHP4 -> PHP5 is not quite true, and completely irrelevant to this situation, but here's to arguing:

PHP5 added a TON of stuff in regards to OOP, and you're right, for the most part, it has retained backwards compatibility.

You can say PHP5 is basically like running AS3 and AS2 in the same environment. Kinda like Flash is. Pick a version to use. Do I want to use complex OOP practices? Let me do that with PHP5, or set Flash to use Actionscript 3.0. If I want to write basic procedural stuff, let me do that still with PHP5, or set Flash to use Actionscript 2.0.

It's not like Flash CS4 has removed the ability to use AS2. If they did, I could see the point of the arguing. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Just like PHP. You can use old PHP4 code, or you can use shiny new PHP5 code in the same interpreter. JUST like Flash.

[Archbob]

For one, get out of the IDE. It's horrible. You keep mentioning FlashDevelop and implying that it's better, so use that. I used it back years ago when I was in the Windows world, and it was awesome. Find & Replace across multiple files is common for most other text editors out there. FlashDevelop included.

I much prefer the IDE over Flash Develop, it has functions that can't be matched. Flash-Develop is for a different set of people. There are hordes of people including me that prefer the IDE over flashdevelop. The animation tools and drawing abilities and things like shape and motion tween --- there's just no comparison. Flashdevelop sucks compared to the IDE if you prefer a visual interface.

Try using Find and Replace when you have code on your individual MovieClips. Also, being able to Find and Replace with a regex pattern comes in handy in some critical times. The IDE can't do that. The list can go on and on.

I have a professional flash decompiler just for this reason. With it, you can view all code in clips as if they were in one place. Doesn't work with 50 different AS files.

Most of the time, flash games can be made with relatively few movie clips. The AS3 stuff I've bought so far even for simple games at least contain 20 separate AS files for some reason.

The thing with PHP5 is that you don't have to choose one version for a specific program. You can use both in conjunction. There's plenty of good PHP programs out there that use the old style mainly but then switch to the newer features when needed. Flash doesn't have that ability which allows for more flexibility.

My view on this stuff is mainly for making games:

Use AS3 for stuff like Box2d or games with tens of thousands of particles. For most other stuff, sticking to AS2 is a faster way of programming. AS3's real advantage for games comes with its increase in speed.

I wonder why most people become interested in flash in the first place?

But if your not doing games and animations and your doing some giant framework -- you should probably use AS3.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

You're missing the whole point of FlashDevelop vs the IDE. They have to be used in conjunction. FlashDevelop just replaces the code editing part. You still need the timeline and the stage, blah blah blah if you want to draw stuff, animate stuff, etc.

But I'm done with this argument because you're too stubborn to comprehend the concepts needed. You're being close-minded, and it's going nowhere. You know what you want to do, so do it. You're right, we're all wrong. AS2 for life. Go talk to Whispers here. I think he has a t-shirt that says that.

I'll see you in the future when I still have a job and you're still arguing why AS2 will never die.

You use IE6, don't you?

Mod, can you lock this thread?

[Archbob]

I think your forgetting why flash got popular in the first place. It wasn't because of the advanced features or the amazingly framework. It was because it was so easy to code in and produce stuff and as a result, it was adopted by alot of hobbyists.


I'm hoping Adobe will create CS4 and integrate AS2 and AS3 while making the AS2 part type-based(meaning you have to declare variables). That way it can have backward compatibility with AS2 as well as be able to take advantage of the new stuff that AS3 has to offer.

I think your the one being close-minded. I've worked with OO based languages like Java(of which AS3 is like a crippled version of) and I see the benefits of it. But for small or medium-sized projects that are undertaken by yourself or one person, its not always the best. I'll admit AS3 is better for certain things

The funny thing is when you talk to AS3 hard-core believers, they will refuse to admit that AS2 is better for anything and insist on a full OO approach for the simpliest of tasks.


Like I said, I mainly use flash to produce games for my own website and the simple ones that involve clicking and shooting stuff seem to be the most popular. For those kind of simple games. AS3 extra verbose-ness just gets in the way. For more complex games that involve Box2d or such, I'll go with AS3.

As for how to deal with AS3(the topic of this thread), learn it and use it when its needed. Use whichever language you think is the best for a specific task.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Several times, I have admitted who AS2 is better for. Designers and animators who don't care to do anything complex. You keep missing that I've stated that.

Things evolve. PHP was also not meant to write large scale websites. It's original purpose was to use little snippets of code mixed in with HTML. That's just how things go. I bring up IE6 because you have the exact same mindset. "It worked years ago, why did it change?" This is technology we're talking about here.

Also, I hope you know that AS2 has type casting already, and has for years. That is in no way a new feature. And I hope you know that CS4 has been out for a while now already.

For once I'm going to agree with joshstrike: move up with the times, or get out.

[cancerinform]

The way Flash started was less a programming tool rather than using hard copy tools like frames. Therefore the early flash versions are mainly using frames, something many users actually like (see many posts in this forum). Flash 4 had a bit of AS for buttons for example.

A major change occurred in Flash 5 with the introduction of the dot syntax and the MovieClip concept, which reduced file size. and of course in Flash MX where many new programming features were introduced like loading external files. Flash MX2004 then introduced classes and in Flash 8 the bitmap modifying classes were introduced. That was the point when Adobe took over the former Macromedia company.

The main reason AS3 was introduced is because of performance issues. AS3 code is first compiled into byte code (this may explain error 5005, which was reported recently) and then passed to the new AS virtual machine AMV2. This speeds performance up about 10fold over AS2 except for CPU-intensive operations. AS3 is based on ECMAScript (ECMA-262 version), which was originally Netscape's Javascript. So XML parsing is very different from AS2 for example. Also AS3 uses the document object model.

Using AS1 or 2 is fine except that it will not be supported any more and stays as a closed language. You should start simple with AS3 to understand the new concept.

I am not a programmer or computer scientist and started with HTML and then Flash 5. I was never in my life getting confronted with any programming language. But by learning Flash it is now becoming easy for me to understand "real" programming languages.

So my advice if you are planning to get into Flash or Flex as a developer you should learn AS3. Start simple: there are many tutorials. The best I know is from Senocular.

[moagrius]

Seems like a lot of people in this thread are offering their opinion and branding it as fact.

AS3 isn't "better" than AS2 - nor vice versa - it's just different. Same with ASP vs PHP, or C vs JS or Java or whatever. Nor is one particular language or approach more "professional" than another. AS3 isn't any more "professional" than AS2. AS3 does more stuff than AS2 and in some cases is faster.

Also, there seems to be this idea being perpetuated that OOP is the end-all golden standard of how someone "should" program. Not true at all, and many programmers prefer a more procedural/functional approach.

One point I'll offer - AS2 offered a lot more flair Nowadays, everybody's code looks the same. In AS2, you could (and often had to) get creative - I was accused on this board a few years ago as writing "crazy voodoo code" - which I took as a compliment. It's not nearly as easy to write crazy voodoo code in AS3.

As of today, I use AS3, and I tend to write class-based OOP applications. Not because it's better, but that's what's asked of me - and if working with supplied files, that's what I'm given. Doesn't mean I think somebody who still writes in AS2 is less professional than me - in fact maybe I'd even be a little jealous.

Bottom line: use what you want.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

You're completely missing the points being made, and assuming we're bashing you.

AS2 vs AS3 is completely different boat than any of the other comparisons you've made. Comparing AS2 to AS3 is better assimilated by Python 2 vs Python 3. Or AS1 vs AS2.

Do you remember that old AS1 syntax? From the times of Flash 4 or Flash 5? They broke all that backwards compatibility when they updated with the times. That's what happens during the evolution of computer science.

With the introduction of Python 3, it broke backwards compatibility in a bunch of places. Do people care? Not so much. If they wanted to continue with the 2.x branch, they will, if they want to step up to 3.x, they will.

They don't just do things for the sake of doing things. There was obviously a high demand for a more advanced version of Actionscript. Same exact thing happened when they switched syntax several years ago with AS1.

And have fun writing your "crazy voodoo code" that you won't understand next month, or will cause another developer to rip out their hair. I just hope for the sake of your sanity and others that you document your code very thoroughly so that "crazy voodoo code" is maintainable in the near future. People write code in the same fashions for a reason, too. Lots of people work on projects in a distributed fashion. Multiple people working on the same project. That's another good reason that OOP has evolved nicely. I have have 5 dudes working on a project with no conflict if everyone is on different areas.

Oh, and have fun with your code on buttons if you have to step into the real world and use any kind of version control system like Subversion or Git.

[joshstrike]

@moagrius, I still write and see plenty of crazy voodoo in as3 -- maybe 'cause I'm dealing with a lot of 3d packages, which were very limited in as2...

The point about flash's evolution was that at some stage it was decided to give flash more of the functionality that had always been there in shockwave. People can argue that flash was adopted because it was easy to use, but that's not really true; it was adopted because the plugin was smaller. Back in '98 when I started doing flash for an agency, they were neck and neck, and it looked as if shockwave would likely win out. Our banner people used flash to comp things up quickly. People who wanted to do serious interactive apps used director.

Now that you can write serious apps in AS3, and no one still wants to download a huge plugin like shockwave, the coders have switched over. Bottom line is, AS2 will be supported for a long time; Flash is backwards-compatible, in that it runs your old AS2 code just fine; so what's the big deal? If you're not into programming anyway, what difference does it make that the preference for coders now is the newer, sleeker language?

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Ahh, Shockwave. Oh how I miss thee.

[moagrius]

You're completely missing the points being made, and assuming we're bashing you.

never thought you were bashing me, and you haven't really made any points other than repeating CW.

And have fun writing your "crazy voodoo code" that you won't understand next month, or will cause another developer to rip out their hair. I just hope for the sake of your sanity and others that you document your code very thoroughly so that "crazy voodoo code" is maintainable in the near future. People write code in the same fashions for a reason, too. Lots of people work on projects in a distributed fashion. Multiple people working on the same project. That's another good reason that OOP has evolved nicely. I have have 5 dudes working on a project with no conflict if everyone is on different areas.

Oh, and have fun with your code on buttons if you have to step into the real world and use any kind of version control system like Subversion or Git.

dude - i don't think i'll "forget" how to write code. and i don't use buttons. you need to get off your high horse - i remember when you were desperately posting for someone to help with how to load multiple jpegs using movieclip loader... you telling me "the right way" to code is just ridiculous.

i was telling the original poster to code how he wants and how he feels comfortable - so quit with the sarcasm and quit patronising.

[5TonsOfFlax]

Honeybunny, Pumpkin, everyone be cool. Nobody's gonna hurt anybody. We're gonna be like Fonzies. And what's Fonzie like?


Seriously. Stay away from personal attacks or this thread's getting closed. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but tempers do seem to be rising.

[rrutter81]

i started out as a graphic designer when i was learning flash 3....... yes actionscript 1.

the change from 1 to 2 was a big difference and i hated it.

now 2-3.... at first i hated it but i got some c++ and java development under my belt.

For a designer as2 is the fastest thing to use without the hassle. However that all changed when i started replicating the same as2 commands in to as3 and importing my as2 package.

in essence as3 is more robust. as2 is down and dirty quick animating, however with experience you can make as3 just as quick, easy and dirty.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

dude - i don't think i'll "forget" how to write code. and i don't use buttons. you need to get off your high horse - i remember when you were desperately posting for someone to help with how to load multiple jpegs using movieclip loader... you telling me "the right way" to code is just ridiculous.

For one, what does that have to do with anything? I'm young. I've learned quickly. I've excelled past most people, and I've achieved a lot of success so far. I'm quite respected for what I know and my abilities, so yes. I'm on a high horse because I have been praised and put there by others. If you can't take advice or criticism, don't ask for it.

Maybe this is why I've excelled. I've learned and adapted to the new technologies, and didn't try to argue why it was a pain in the ass to learn. I knew what I had to do, and did it. So now that you obviously have made it clear that you're better than me, I will further keep my mouth shut since I know nothing. I gad yet to make that claim until you took that shot at me.

[moagrius]

if you look at my post, it wasn't argumentative at all - i was encouraging the OP to code using whatever language and approach he was most comfortable with.

then you come in with this:

have fun writing your "crazy voodoo code" that you won't understand next month, or will cause another developer to rip out their hair. I just hope for the sake of your sanity and others that you document your code very thoroughly so that "crazy voodoo code" is maintainable in the near future

and

have fun with your code on buttons if you have to step into the real world and use any kind of version control system like Subversion or Git.

that's patronizing.

and as far as this goes:

If you can't take advice or criticism, don't ask for it.

I didn't.

let's leave it alone now.

[neznein9]

[closed]

Killing this little screed - the original 'question' was thin at best and nothing constructive has been said in a dozen posts.