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Thread: The NHS & the United States of America

  1. #261
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jujumon View Post
    In the US you dont deport illegal immigrants after they were arrested and served their sentence? why is that?
    Because it's apparently bad politics.
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  2. #262
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    in what ground do they use to justify that? like they become refugee or something?

  3. #263
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Some criminal illegal immigrants are deported after serving sentences. It depends on whether or not the crime they were convicted of is on a list of "deportable offenses." Then, they have to go before an immigration court, which is apparently backed up and doesn't always lead to deportation.

    That's an issue by itself. But, I was referring more to the immediate enforcement. Many larger cities have policies that prohibit the police from even asking about a persons legal status. It's not realistic that health care providers are going to enforce that more than police without some measure requiring them to do so.
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  4. #264
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    that's fine but if there was a 100% effective immediate enforcement then there wouldnt be many illegals anywhere in the first place.

    At the moment you are speculating abuse of the healthcare system based on another system. Am I right? If that is the case then what if, say, Obama's plan went through, after awhile there is 'proof' to show wide spread abuse of healthcare system by illegals. Then the Admin can find new and more effective measures to prevent this problem. (I think it's easier as Im guessing it's like welfare, they have to prove their legal status first before receiving.)

    would you say this is a compromise with your stance (in this particular point)?

  5. #265
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    I don't think that would be a compromise. That would be poor planning. When there is a precedent for illegal immigrants using every public service they are able to, it would be a costly over-sight to assume that they won't and then try to correct the problem after the fact.

    That said, to be honest, I don't see this point as being that big of an issue relative to others. As you mentioned, if immigration were enforced properly, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place. So, I don't believe that hospitals are the point at which we should try and solve illegal immigration.

    I just think that it's dishonest to try and claim that illegal immigrants wouldn't benefit from this plan.
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  6. #266
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Heh. You quoted Charles Krauthammer.

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  7. #267
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    I like Charles Krauthammer... I need to remember to read his column more.
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  8. #268
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    I hope you enjoy Limbaugh too... he's in raw fashion lately...

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  9. #269
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    I hope you enjoy Limbaugh too... he's in raw fashion lately...
    never been a fan of his.

    And don't really know why one would compare Krauthammer to Limbaugh. Krauthammer is a very accomplished individual.. Limbaugh was a top 40 disk jokey whose daddy owned a radio station.
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  10. #270
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    I didn't compare. Just that they both seem to be on the neocon list o' likes. Thought I'd give you a starter list.

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  11. #271
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    I see very little true crossover between the two. If someone stated that they enjoy Paul Krugman's column.. would you suggest they watch micheal moore movies?

    If someone enjoyed fine beers, would you suggest milwaukee's best be on their starting list?

    If someone enjoyed fine food, would you suggest the put burger king on their starting list?

    Should a connoisseur of wine start with thunder bird?

    Would one who appreciates fine automobiles such as a 275 gtb twin cam NART start with a fiero... a 85 4 cylinder one no less!
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  12. #272
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Jesus Harold Christ.

    Either you're ignoring the prior issues with Krauthammer and his neocon initiatives that were all over if you had the attention span longer than that of a goldfish, or you've turned a blind eye to any criticisms of that person ever written about him and just want to goad people into saying more so you can pull yet another twist of any word(s) said towards you and enforce your own stance and statement.

    Idiocy seems to be rampant on these boards lately. So is rampant conservatism. I get it... you and FlashLackey don't like the new president. But guess what? While you have had to endure only 8 months of this presidency, people have felt like they endured over 8 years of the last presidency.

    Voices were taken away, constitution rights were ignored, rights were overridden, people were jailed for just showing up at the RNC with a different mindset, two wars were started that will not end well, an increasing deficit started when the last administration walked in it was a surplus and the popular vote was twice ignored.

    And you want to pull out a semantic overload of who would compare what in certain situations?

    Are you being even halfway serious TGLC? Fine. I'll play you and FlashLackey's game.

    Steele, chairman of the RNC had to silence himself because of Rush Limbaugh. Fox News heralds Rush Limbaugh as the new(er) voice of up and coming Republicans... this is just reckless to bring that kind of stuff up when he's nothing more than a "go to Haiti and get illegal prescription drugs" pill popper that had way too much to say about other people that had done the same thing. Pot. Kettle. He was probably both of them.

    So to bring Krauthammer into the mix, as well established/accomplished as he may be to most people, his views are pretty much in align with Limbaugh. How so? Because Fox News and people that love that channel/show adores him too. How do they compare? Different words, damn near same agenda... divisive tactics that do nothing to help America; only divides it and offers nothing in return.

    I hope you are happy now. There's enough ammo for you to adjust and reuse for whatever you wish to accomplish now. Have at it.

    I'll be too busy to really care what you'll have to say. I'm quite sure it will some short, two sentence sound byte sampled from whomever I will never see eye-to-eye with simply because if I had to endure 8 years of Bush, you people can endure somebody that's having to spend their way out of the mess your beloved prior president and politicians created while they're off chomping on Cohiba cigars and drinking fine wine in the back of their Maybach.

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  13. #273
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    There, have at it. I swear to God that the sour grapes of who won is nothing compared to when Bush won. Gore got called a crybaby, as did people that supported his claim.

    And now, it doesn't apply!? Bull****. Bunch of self-righteous crybabies. And don't pull that "Well I'm a Libertarian" policy with me either. You know damn well they'll never win.

    So support whatever. Just sad you're supporting such divisive tactics.

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  14. #274
    anyone else hear that? flashpipe1's Avatar
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    amen Gerbs...and, if NOTHING else, at least we now have a President who can speak, answer questions and stray from what is written for him.

    I understand the partisian "patriotism" and wanting to support your beliefs, but let's remember that there are some systems in place in this country (legal & medical especially) that have SERIOUS issues that need to be resolved. It would be nice to see politicians working on solutions instead of just bashing the other sides' ideas. We don't need change for the sake of change, but we NEED change for the sake of the country...SOME sort of change. The status quo is NOT working for millions of people (and it's working GREAT for a select few), so let's get some solutions on the table...
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  15. #275
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    plus hes a Jedi.
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  16. #276
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashpipe1 View Post
    amen Gerbs...and, if NOTHING else, at least we now have a President who can speak, answer questions and stray from what is written for him.
    No. People wanted that kind of president... why? Ask around. They will say that "he did what he said he would do".

    But in retrospect, what did he say he'd do? Protect us from terrorism? Silly goose... I'm willing to be that the majority of the people that march now in "tea bag" protests don't even possess a passport. That was the case in "tea bag" protests here in Greenville, SC. And yes, it was non-scientific, but I sure as hell did ask specific questions to get a feeling about what was the real reason for their protests.

    I didn't get it. I got sound bytes from Fox News and the like. "He's going to take our guns away." "He's going to increase the taxes on the poor and middle class." "He's a socialist." Et al...

    I understand the partisian "patriotism" and wanting to support your beliefs, but let's remember that there are some systems in place in this country (legal & medical especially) that have SERIOUS issues that need to be resolved. It would be nice to see politicians working on solutions instead of just bashing the other sides' ideas. We don't need change for the sake of change, but we NEED change for the sake of the country...SOME sort of change. The status quo is NOT working for millions of people (and it's working GREAT for a select few), so let's get some solutions on the table...
    Face it. Very few Americans want bi-partisanship because it doesn't benefit them.

    They want the entire cake because they've gotten used to having it all, and it will "trickle down" to the others. Their opinion is greater than anything else out there. Why?

    Because it's been like that one way or another since 1974.

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  17. #277
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    Heh. You quoted Charles Krauthammer.
    Yes? Remember, without attacking the messenger...

    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar View Post
    I like Charles Krauthammer... I need to remember to read his column more.
    I do too. Well worth the RSS spot. Even for those who disagree with him and want to keep up with opposing view points, his are typically articulate, concise and nuanced examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    Idiocy seems to be rampant on these boards lately. So is rampant conservatism. I get it... you and FlashLackey don't like the new president. But guess what? While you have had to endure only 8 months of this presidency, people have felt like they endured over 8 years of the last presidency.
    And consequently, during those 8 years, those who opposed Bush from the beginning regularly complained and argued about his policies. Now that the tables are reversed, it shouldn't be a surprise that the same thing is happening in reverse since the other guy is now driving the new policies of the day. I don't think it's a matter of enduring something as much as it's either enjoying political debate or not.

    It's not a game. It's an activity that you can choose to participate in or not. It's a two way activity. So, you don't get to make up new rules that prohibit criticism just because it's now someone doing things you agree with in office.

    To be honest, I think it is Obama's supporters that are acting like cry-babies over people opposing his ideas in the very same way that others opposed Bush. Spare me the feet stamping and crying foul that anyone dare organize a protest against the community organizer, Obama. Bush was compared to Hitler as often as people clicked right mouse buttons. But, now that Obama is compared to him, it's become a subject deserving of serious discussion? Give me a break. You win the job, you get to deal with dissent like everyone else has had to all the way back to and including George Washington.

    In the words of the great Chad Ochocinco: child please!
    Last edited by FlashLackey; 09-18-2009 at 12:55 PM.
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  18. #278
    I Mastered Dead Technology TallGuyLittleCar's Avatar
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    anybody that suggests I like Limbaugh can suffer a life of papercuts on their tongue.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    Either you're ignoring the prior issues with Krauthammer and his neocon initiatives that were all over if you had the attention span longer than that of a goldfish,
    guessed i missed them. was it something other that his america = world police? That I am familiar with.

    Idiocy seems to be rampant on these boards lately. So is rampant conservatism. I get it... you and FlashLackey don't like the new president. But guess what? While you have had to endure only 8 months of this presidency, people have felt like they endured over 8 years of the last presidency.
    Got it..everybody sat on there hands and were quit during bush's 8 years. Disagree with gerbick = idiot. Asside from FL and I.. who are the other rampant conservatives here.. if there is more than 3 we should get t-shirts.

    Have I or flashlackey attempted an overthrow of the government? No. Are we disagreeing with individual legislation, that is actually a product of senate not obama. I am.. don't know what flashlackey is up to.. Its funny, in the next paragraph you talk about voices being silenced and rights taken away, yet FL and I are idiots, crybabies etc. pot and kettle?

    Voices were taken away,
    If you mean somehow a vote equals a voice.. that has been settled many times over. if you mean voice as in voice.. i can't even respond to that.
    constitution rights were ignored,rights were overridden,
    were before, will be after. I think only asking if a president is more lawful and constitutional than W is a pretty low bar.
    people were jailed for just showing up at the RNC with a different mindset,
    individuals were detained. How long were their jail sentances?
    two wars were started that will not end well,
    Iraq will end pretty soon. What would you have done differently about Afghanistan?

    an increasing deficit started when the last administration walked in it was a surplus
    technically, check your dates.. but I agree with the sentiment. Also look at congress during that time period.. I think they have something to do with the budget.
    and the popular vote was twice ignored.
    the constitution is a real stick in the mud


    And you want to pull out a semantic overload of who would compare what in certain situations?
    you really think Limbaugh and krautmann are equals? Have you ever read any of his columns? Are you familiar at all with him?

    So to bring Krauthammer into the mix, as well established/accomplished as he may be to most people,
    I know of very few people that would question the accomplishments of his
    resume both in politics and medicine... are you at all familiar with it?
    his views are pretty much in align with Limbaugh.
    How so? Because Fox News and people that love that channel/show adores him too. How do they compare? Different words, damn near same agenda... divisive tactics that do nothing to help America; only divides it and offers nothing in return.
    I can really only guess you are not really familiar with Krauthammer.

    I'm guessing most people that are fans of Micheal Moore voted for and adore Obama.. would you group those two together? 1 is a bloated moron.. the other an accomplished intelligent reasonable individual. Are their views pretty much line? Judging and comparing two individuals views is done by their fanbase now? wtf


    And now, it doesn't apply!? Bull****. Bunch of self-righteous crybabies. And don't pull that "Well I'm a Libertarian" policy with me either. You know damn well they'll never win.
    eh? I'd say the truthers are bat**** crazy. Those are the only ones I know of that are contesting Obama's legitimacy. Am I questioning his job performance.. so far yes.

    So support whatever. Just sad you're supporting such divisive tactics.
    Hey sorry I don't fall instep. I'm supporting disagreement.. but divisive tactics? I don't get it.
    Last edited by TallGuyLittleCar; 09-18-2009 at 01:35 PM.
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  19. #279
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    Yes? Remember, without attacking the messenger...
    Eh? I said simply "Heh. You quoted Krauthammer." Find the attack in that sentence. I implore you.

    And consequently, during those 8 years, those who opposed Bush from the beginning regularly complained and argued about his policies. Now that the tables are reversed, it shouldn't be a surprise that the same thing is happening in reverse since the other guy is now driving the new policies of the day. I don't think it's a matter of enduring something as much as it's either enjoying political debate or not.
    Yawn.

    It's not a game. It's an activity that you can choose to participate in or not. It's a two way activity. So, you don't get to make up new rules that prohibit criticism just because it's now someone doing things you agree with in office.
    It is a game, unfortunately because people are simply out to "win". And what's funny, I'm not prohibiting criticism, I'm questioning what the critics are saying.

    Sadly, you're incapable of seeing that I also did the same with Bush too. People are far too driven by sensationalistic journalism, driven into a frenzy yet the moment they're questioned directly, they deflect, talk a lot, answer nothing.

    Case in point... almost all of your answers. I had to once force you to answer a very small issue once. Need I link to that exercise in futility?

    To be honest, I think it is Obama's supporters that are acting like cry-babies over people opposing his ideas in the very same way that others opposed Bush. Spare me the feet stamping and crying foul that anyone dare organize a protest against the community organizer, Obama. Bush was compared to Hitler as often as people clicked right mouse buttons. But, now that Obama is compared to him, it's become a subject deserving of serious discussion? Give me a break. You win the job, you get to deal with dissent like everyone else has had to all the way back to and including George Washington.
    You would liken them to crybabies. Same for Gore's supporters. That's fair.

    I liken anybody that blindly and wholly follows anything to be a lemming.

    In the words of the great Chad Ochocinco: child please!
    Right back 'atcha.

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  20. #280
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallGuyLittleCar View Post
    anybody that suggests I like Limbaugh can suffer a life of papercuts on their tongue.
    It's the same thing.

    guessed i missed them. was it something other that his america = world police? That I am familiar with.
    Historically, you will know that I oppose this fully.

    Got it..everybody sat on there hands and were quit during bush's 8 years. Disagree with gerbick = idiot. Asside from FL and I.. who are the other rampant conservatives here.. if there is more than 3 we should get t-shirts.
    Quite the leap of faith with "disagree with gerbick = idiot". Care to add any other words in there while you're at it?

    Simply put, I finally gave you enough to work with, and you overdid it. Try again.

    Have I or flashlackey attempted an overthrow of the government? No. Are we disagreeing with individual legislation, that is actually a product of senate not obama. I am.. don't know what flashlackey is up to.. Its funny, in the next paragraph you talk about voices being silenced and rights taken away, yet FL and I are idiots, crybabies etc. pot and kettle?
    Ahem. Let's try this again. To blindly follow and oppose and just disagree with everything, or actually have a good option that's being said that's not gaining any traction in the US... or just to oppose because Fox News told you so.

    Lately, the idiots I am addressing are doing the latter. If you can't see that, then so be it. I don't fully support Obama like you people think.

    Let's see how that's twisted. I'll wait.

    If you mean somehow a vote equals a voice.. that has been settled many times over. if you mean voice as in voice.. i can't even respond to that.
    Vote = voice. I've always stated that. The squeakiest wheel has always been the minority. The tactics are trying to convert that back into a majority. Simply because... well, I don't get their goal.

    Do you?

    I think only asking if a president is more lawful and constitutional than W is a pretty low bar.
    Bring back Nixon. Why the **** not?

    individuals were detained. How long were their jail sentances?
    Eh? Not sure I followed here.

    Iraq will end pretty soon. What would you have done differently about Afghanistan?
    Can anybody, without resorting to a soundbyte, explain why we went there? Then to Iraq without solving that one first? Then we had no plan to leave there? Seriously... it made no sense. Sanctions? Ooh... let's get upset about a country that has more landmines than people.

    Oil? They have shale oil... it's much more expensive to derive usable oil than the "stick a straw in the ground and get it out" Iraq. So... it was a training ground for Al Queda? They're still there? The Taliban or Mujaheddin? We thanked them in the end of Rambo, remember?

    technically, check your dates.. but I agree with the sentiment. Also look at congress during that time period.. I think they have something to do with the budget.
    I'm going back to the '80's for the budget complaints. People were very irresponsible. Plain and simple. Reagan outspent the Soviets, and everybody was ok with that. Obama is having to outspend the prior administration and nobody is ok with that. I get it.

    you really think Limbaugh and krautmann are equals? Have you ever read any of his columns? Are you familiar at all with him?
    I said they both support the neocon movement. Same way that I'm being lumped into the Obama sympathizers somehow.

    I know of very few people that would question the accomplishments of his resume both in politics and medicine... are you at all familiar with it?

    I can really only guess you are not really familiar with Krauthammer.
    Read above. Want me to spell it out even further? The way things are going now, this "us vs. them" mentality, either you're a conservative or you're a liberal. Nobody wants to admit to being in the middle or supports that a middle exists.

    That is how I'll clump Krauthammer in regards to what I stated earlier. Want to talk about his accomplishments, let's do it. I gave my reason for why I stated that association. Now care to answer, if given the same criteria, where would you place him?

    I'm guessing most people that are fans of Micheal Moore voted for and adore Obama.. would you group those two together? 1 is a bloated moron.. the other an accomplished intelligent reasonable individual. Are their views pretty much line? Judging and comparing two individuals views is done by their fanbase now? wtf
    That's actually what's happening. Watch Fox News. If you like Michael Moore, you like Obama:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox News
    Democrats also love to say it. Michael Moore quoted it in his last movie, "SICKO" which in hindsight may as well have been a commercial for Obama-care.
    eh? I'd say the truthers are bat**** crazy. Those are the only ones I know of that are contesting Obama's legitimacy. Am I questioning his job performance.. so far yes.
    Truthers, birthers, people that supported McCain or Bush or those ATLAH weirdos... the whole legitimacy part is questioned still to this day.

    Hey sorry I don't fall instep. I'm supporting disagreement.. but divisive tactics? I don't get it.
    I do.

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