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Thread: No more iphone support.....

  1. #21
    Yes we can tomsamson's Avatar
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    Yeah, on such ends its pretty similar to publishing download titles for consoles.
    Each distribution way has its own pros and cons like that though, for example with publishing flash games for the web by oneself you always run into the risk that no portal wants your game or you only find ones who pay low or you find one who pays well but your game gets then stolen and published on 10k other portals within a day without you getting any additional money and being robbed of any chance of licensing it away again for any proper sum etc etc.
    For android and others one could easily create such a downer list, too, one thing that made me wonder a bit how that can be financially viable is the let´s say relaxed no questions asked lengthy duration spanning open return policy for apps on the android store. I´ve heard of many developers who get a bunch of apps sold but then a high percentage returned after a while, which is no wonder since many games even if great can be played through in a single day easily, so if someone can after playing through the whole thing return it and get a full refund everytime,hm..

    I think its really best to think about the ups and downs of each platform a bit but then just go for the one(s) one finds overall more appealing.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    Verbose off

  3. #23
    Senior Member Alluvian's Avatar
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    I find free will to be remarkably capable of keeping me from reading threads I don't want to.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alluvian View Post
    I find free will to be remarkably capable of keeping me from reading threads I don't want to.
    lol

  5. #25
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    For those of you who may not have seen it, here's Steve Jobs' open letter to Adobe explaining why Apple doesn't support Flash:

    http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

  6. #26
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    He may be right when says that flash runs very bad on i phone,or about html5, but that part
    We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features.
    looks like cheap excuses

  7. #27
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    I mean, flash runs slow, you want to ban it, then do it, but that 'layer' excuse is one of the greatest bs i've ever saw in my life.Steve Jobs must think he is some kind of God and programmers are irrational cattle to buy that.
    http://gamehaxe.com/2010/04/10/bravo-apple/

  8. #28
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    He's definitely way off regarding HTML 5 / JS / Canvas.
    It's very ancient technology which harks back to the good old 90's.

    http://www.8bitrocket.com/newsdispla...newspage=39961

    ... those are the same reasons I stopped working with JavaScript and moved to Flash about 10 years ago. It doesn't look like there have been any significant improvements since then.

    It seems as though people who are talking up the virtues of "HTML 5" over Flash don't actually understand or work with the technology. Also, nobody has solved the video codec licensing issues.

    Or maybe I'm missing something??

  9. #29
    Senior Member Alluvian's Avatar
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    Yes, he should ban importing libraries as well, because if devs become dependent on them, then they will only support new features when the libraries support new features.

    Or to be just a LITTLE less sarcastic, why isn't he banning all dev tools, like all box2d apps because box2d might oneday be poorly optimized, or pixelwave, or all 3d rendering engines, etc...

    Very lame excuse, just as lame as banning all the 'fleshy' apps when they have safari and worse, still allow the playboy app and the sports illustrated app. I don't see how appstore devs sleep at night, heh.

  10. #30
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    also
    'we belive the web should be open source'
    Really?? And quicktime was what?

  11. #31
    Senior Member flashisland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandylion13 View Post
    ... those are the same reasons I stopped working with JavaScript and moved to Flash about 10 years ago.
    Same here - I first got started making games in JavaScript and then moved to Flash once I realized the drawbacks. Anyone promoting HTML5 as a complete Flash replacement has probably never programmed a game in JavaScript. There are some things you just can't do that you can do with Flash.

  12. #32

  13. #33
    Yes we can tomsamson's Avatar
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    The problem with such posts by people from the flash community is that they often get as many points wrong themselves as they try to correct in apple´s statements.
    Like the last one you linked to ends with the point that it would be wrong that flash is a battery drainer.
    While every experienced and honest flash developer of course would accept that flash has very high system requirements regarding memory and cpu consumption and for in comparison basic content keeps the cpu busy at way too high levels. So yes, of course it gets the fans spinning louder on many desktops and of course its therefore also a battery drainer on mobile devices.
    Its no use for any of us when people neglect these facts because the sooner they are accepted the sooner there is maybe actually a chance for Adobe propperly addressing them, not with half baked solutions as they´ve done so far.

    I agree with those statements where people say its nonsense that html5 is compared to flash so much because yes, one still can´t do many things in html5 which one can do with flash and flash also performs better than html5 in many areas on many browsers.
    The problem is that then Adobe themselves goes out and compares themselves with html5 where it fits into their marketing spin (like recently where they did a performance comparison between html5 and flash again) which is stupid, because they should better try to compare themselves with native content on the devices,which they can´t because flash performs way worse than things made with other solutions for creating native apps, so yeah, that´s what they have to work on, get really compeitive there.
    Once one can run kickass textured poly realtime 3d stuff at good performance on an android device in a flash made app noone can argue saying flash performs lousy or is a battery drainer. It would also make Apple look bad for arguing negatively about flash´s performance etc.
    But until that day comes in a few years, well, Adobe and close in mind to Adobe people should better push harder than play the pissed off kid that is annoyed when the parents set the record straight.
    Last edited by tomsamson; 04-30-2010 at 07:49 AM.

  14. #34
    Senior Member bluemagica's Avatar
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    I am not a experienced flash dev, especially when it comes to mobile platforms, but in this fight, I feel both are at fault.
    Apple has set quite a few past examples of it's snobbish behavior( which most of the time makes little to no sense at all, like the palm-pre ordeal ), and this time they do have some valid points against flash. But the thing is, this is not limited to just flash but all other middlewares which can make apps for the i-platform, and their whole reasoning is pretty stupid.
    Also I don't like them dictating how we can use a device after paying 600bucks for it. Apple say's that is to maintain quality, but who actually decides this quality?, if not the user, the owner of the device? Sure the flash player is a battery drainer, but that doesn't mean a there aren't good apps for it, that a particular user may find useful.
    Even if they were to ban flash player, why ban all middlewares, and force everyone to use stupid obj-c? Just knowing a language doesn't make one a programmer, and being able to program freely with particular language requires patience, and lots of experience. Apple is practically kicking out most of it's developer base.

    There are many flash games and apps, converted to the i-platform, are on the app store and doing great. So the creativity of flash devs are no less the their braniac obj-c programmers, in fact, i believe, students, and kids are far more creative and can create better products if they have some easy way to implement their ideas( like flash with it's visual approach and easy learning curve )....... so why force everyone to become geeky coders?
    It's fine they don't like flash player, but there are solutions already in place like haXe, which can convert As code to c++..... apple could try working with these and improving them if they really were trying to improve quality and get "real" developers.



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  15. #35
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  16. #36
    Custom User Title Incrue's Avatar
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    battery battery...
    http://vimeo.com/9724682
    the other videos are good too

  17. #37
    Yes we can tomsamson's Avatar
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    man, that video is ridiculous. He wants to prove that flash is no battery drainer and what does he show? video not running for extremely long and already over 10% of the battery is used up. Besides that even if it used less battery it would still be a ridiculous way to "proove" that flash is no battery drainer in general because to do so, why didn´t they let an intense (only regarding what flash can handle) game or other app run and check the battery after a while then, instead of going for video playback?
    The reason is clear, it would look way worse for flash then.

    Its the same old story with Adobe, instead of admitting the problems and addressing them properly they keep on trying to cheat the developers and users by trying to tell the problems are just not there, you know, you just have to do the right type of test to proove it..

  18. #38
    Senior Member Ray Beez's Avatar
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    The battery excuse is lame. When I play Time Crisis or Katamari or even Rolando on my Ipod Touch, the battery drains fast. None of those were made with Flash.

    If that's a real concern then what Apple needs to do is set App standards that every app must aim to meet. For example, certain battery consumption limits, just like how some software eco systems have file size limits. You set those guidelines and then the devs work harder to optimize and meet those standards. THAT'S how you quality-control your app store offerings. You don't do it by generalized over-reaching nonsensical bans.

  19. #39
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    "you can cook an egg on [devices] once you start running Flash on them"

    http://mashable.com/2010/05/06/opera-flash-debate/

  20. #40
    Senior Member Alluvian's Avatar
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    I can cook an egg on my iphone browsing the web on 3g and I have made 007 traps with google maps.

    "MUhahahhahahaha! Let's see you escape THIS Mr. Bond! I have set this iPhone on your head. It is running google maps and panning around in satellite view, which is keeping the gps and 3g cell modem active. You have approximately 30 seconds before it melts THROUGH YOUR SKULL"

    And then Bond escapes because he knows the iPhone battery won't actually LAST 30 seconds with both the gps and 3g modem on.

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