What makes a Flash Developer?

[gotoAndCrash]

Greetings all,

Just wondering the popular opinion of the definition of a Flash Developer:
Does a Flash Developer need to know languages such as MySql, PHP, SOAP, etc, in order to be considered a Flash Developer?

Granted, there are varying degrees of Development, as an example - Porsche makes sports cars - so does Nissan...

Can a Flash Developer be defined as someone who's files are mostly scripted, & possibly entail some XML & other dynamic content? Of course they won't be as good as the guy who develops custom classes of complex math equations for super-realistic physics - but can they still be considered a "Developer", or are they just a "Designer with some extra skills"?

If someone uses mostly scripted animation ('mostly' being the difference between moving stuff around vs. things like walk cycles), makes games (some of which feature PHP/MySql high score tables), contact forms, dynamic slideshows (from scratch), & various other timeline-avoiding "applications" can they consider themselves a "Developer"?

To recap : What are the attributes that takes someone from "Flash User" status to "Flash Developer" status, & when can they get away with calling themselves that without lying?

[MyFriendIsATaco]

I consider a Flash Developer a programmer fluent in Actionscript.

I wouldn't say that a Flash developer needs to know PHP, MySQL, or anything like that. I would assume they have at least a basic understanding of how that stuff works because it benefits you as a Flash Developer. An understanding of XML at least.

I don't even think a Flash developer needs a good understanding of animation or design. Hell, I can't design a thing, but I'm a developer. Developers are not designers nor animators. I can animate basic things, but nothing extravagant.

Basically, being any kind of developer usually involves only programming. You can specialize in different kinds of programming, like you mentioned, games, slideshows, applications, etc, but you don't need to know everything. I can't make games for the life of me, but that doesn't mean I am not a developer.

[jAQUAN]

If you get paid for it.

[cancerinform]

A Flash developer usually refers to an actionscript developer in ads, otherwise it is called Flash designer. There are a few jobs where only AS skills are required, but most jobs ask for more: javascript, css, often ajax. Once I contacted a consultant company and was asked about LAMP, another time about J2ee and Flash integration.

[gotoAndCrash]

Taco - if you don't mind me asking, & I don't need super-details, but what do you develop? You say that you can't make games, & I was just curious what you excel at or specialize in developing. (I'm not being sarcastic nor condescending, even though as I read that question back, I see how it could be negatively interpreted, but don't know another way to phrase it - I'm trying to get a feel for what can be done that is considered "Development" as a comparison to...umm..."not development" )

jAQUAN - see, that's the thing - I was hired as a "Designer", (for crap wages, just to "get into the industry" [sucker!] - I made more money working at BlockBuster Video...seriously. not kidding.) though have been required to do things that to me seem to be Developer things, which I LOVE coding, & am increasingly growing away from design, except in the case of games - yet they don't call me a Developer, & I'd really like to get a job as a (Jr.) Game Developer, & am not sure if I have enough skills to "be one". I could sit here & write out the actionscript for something like a dynamic XML slideshow on pen & paper, not that that really means anything...or does it??

cancerinform - yeah, I've seen all those other languages listed in ads, & tend to just ignore them

I want to get into Game Development work, but am "harassed" at my current job because I don't know PHP, or SOAP, or Visual Basic (j/k), & it kind of makes me feel like I'm not good enough...though I also feel like I know enough to get into that field, & have the desire to learn more about it. I would never go for a Senior position, but feel that I am far past, though appropriate for, a Jr. dev position. They wanted me to create a high score table for a game - so I spent 2 days learning enough PHP/MySql to create one from scratch - & incorporate it into the Flash game. I have solely designed/built games, websites, touch-screen kiosk apps, & various other elements that are mostly dynamically populated & controlled - I haven't made a time-line tween in years!

I'm gearing up to follow my passion for game dev & just wanted to know how the community defines Flash Development, so that I can feel confident in applying for dev positions.

[Frets]

Easy solution. learn one.
asp pays more only because.
1. Some corporate bigshot buys every line of crap ms sells
2. You'll spend hours stumbling in the dark until you uncloak the mystery speak most of the literature is trying to say.

PHP
Was a hell of a lot easier to learn then asp or perl. There are millions of free scripts ripe for the taking. It's also pretty easy to integrate with flash if you have basic actionscript knowledge.

Pick up a wamp and a good book, code a little everyday.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Taco - if you don't mind me asking, & I don't need super-details, but what do you develop? You say that you can't make games, & I was just curious what you excel at or specialize in developing. (I'm not being sarcastic nor condescending, even though as I read that question back, I see how it could be negatively interpreted, but don't know another way to phrase it - I'm trying to get a feel for what can be done that is considered "Development" as a comparison to...umm..."not development" )

No offense taken.

I can basically handle everything except games. Someone has to code websites too!

I prefer to be considered a web developer, and not just a Flash developer. I can handle anything from Actionscript, to PHP/MySQL, to Javascript, and some other crap. If it goes on the web, I can more than likely take care of it.

[creativeinsomnia]

My official title is "Interactive Developer" but I only work in Flash.

I dont design, nor do i do any other coding besides Actionscript(with some XML and JSON thrown in).

I get PSD files from the Designers, I build them in flash, and hand off any SWF files to the Developers who then integrate them inside their applications/sites.

I think it's getting ridiculous now when companies want a "Flash Developer" but require them to do PHP/MYSQL/ASP/.NET etc. But I guess we even do it when we're hiring, we put everything we can think of on the job posting to lure good talent and scare away the bad. I think it's mostly BS though.

[gotoAndCrash]

creativeinsomnia!!
That's it! "Interactive Developer". With games thrown in, in place of the JSON.

I suppose then, that for those of us who desire to work primarily in Flash, that it may take some time to find "just the right thing"...?
I do appreciate & use XML quite a bit, & I actually like PHP because it's very similar to AS, though I'm no PHP wizard.

Thank you everyone for your input. It seems that the answer to my question is that there are simply varying degrees & interpretations of the term (& similar terms), & that there are jobs out there for each of those variations...& I guess that's exactly the answer I wanted.

[koolbabs2000]

What makes a Flash Developer?

- Never say you dont know !!! Always say you did'nt get a chance to work on it ! You can always take help from the forum or to learn new things !

[lesli_felix]

A flash developer is someone who can code and build in flash, has an understanding of the creative/design and animation side of the build, but doesn't necessarily execute those aspects of the build.

At the minimum (junior flash developer), they'll be able to code in actionscript1 and know how the flash environment works enough to build apps with existing creative assets in the IDE.

At the maximum level, they'll be able to code OOP AS3 with design patterns and decent UML documentation, have enough creative ability to code transitions and script animation, and will have worked with other technolgies including but not limited to flex, subversion, external AS editors, xml and server-side communication. Almost always male, they'll have probably tried to write their own 3d engine, will most likely have a poster of trinity from the matrix on their bedroom wall, a big "F" tattoed on their right arm, and probably won't have time for a girlfriend.

[jAQUAN]

To further what cancer said, you pretty much become a dev as soon as you start using code in your movies. Not a very glamorous definition but true none the less. Above that there are all kinds of levels few of which any employer would be able to differentiate. Someone who writes games is a flash game dev. The quality of the code dictates how good of a game designer he is, but he is still a flash game dev none the less if he finishes even one game. Someone who does nothing but interactive is an interactive flash dev. He may suck at resource management but if the work was completed and he got paid, he's an interactive flash dev.

My point is, why would anyone care about a title? I for one wouldn't limit myself to such a specific title. Chances are if you're skills are competitive, you've spent time in a lot of other apps or fields of study in order to get them there.

If you're asking because you want to know jobs you can apply for then it doesnt matter. The employer is likely mis-using the term in which case you kinda have to interview them back. A red flag is any employer who thinks they can get industry competitive flash from an in-house developer. Not that the dev is no good, just that time, budget and overhead are never considered.

If you'r asking because you want to know what to call yourself, Im no help. My skill set is so varied that I've had to resort to calling myself a graphics generalist.

[creativeinsomnia]

Someone who does nothing but interactive is an interactive flash dev. He may suck at resource management but if the work was completed and he got paid, he's an interactive flash dev.

My point is, why would anyone care about a title?

I'm an interactive developer...and I make lots of games. Games are interactive. An interactive flash developer is kind of an odd title. Pretty much everything in flash is going to be interactive, be it a game/site/banner ad. I think my title fits because i do everything from basic animation to pulling in Web Services.

And people care about titles for one main reason. Money. Flash designers or Interactive designers make far less than a Flash Developer or Interactive Developer. There is a much larger pay scale for developers than creatives so once you get that developer title next to your name, you make more money moving forward.

Title's dont limit you to anything at all. You do what you do, that's why you have a job and that's why you were hired. A title can give you a career path and something to work towards. When you work for a large agency, your title is important in making money.

If you are a freelancer or work for a small shop, then title's dont really matter.

[jAQUAN]

Pretty much everything in flash is going to be interactive

I've worked with a few guys who were never going to be anything more than animators.

[gotoAndCrash]

:: I write too much, I need a freekin blog, or something - I tried to itemize it ::

It may be important to note that I am the kind of person who will NEVER say that I can do something that I can't do. I would always say something like "I don't have personal experience with that functionality, let me do some tests & see what happens." So perhaps a backbone of my query is that I don't want to apply for things that are outside of my skill set &/or interest.

lesli_felix
how about ".swf" across the knuckles?
maybe ".fla" on the other one...hmm...must...resist...such...a good...idea...

jAQUAN
yeah, it's not necessarily the "title" itself that matters, but the type of work that it dictates. Though I think the word I like best so far is "Flash Game Developer". I'm consistently improving my coding ability, & I also can identify where things could be better in similar future projects. & I always try to approach things differently to see what happens - no copying/pasting.

creativeinsomnia
THANK you! ($omeone had to $ay it!) I didn't get into Flash for the money (or the "chicks"), but let's face it - we all need it, & anyone who says they'd rather be paid less is lying. It gets blurry here - I was hired as a "Designer", yet haven't done any design in quite a while - except for the holiday eCard games that I'm to create (concept, art, animation, code), which I LOVE doing, though oddly enough most of the Flash work that comes thru comes in two varieties - XML slideshow that I could do if I had to type with my face, & super complex application interfacing with any one of the 37 new languages that pop up every month... Never-the-less, not a lot of designing going on...more like developing, I'm thinkin'. Though I'm still making the same amount that I was making when hired as a "designer" (not very much). In that sense, title can mean a lot.

I've worked with a few guys who were never going to be anything more than animators.

touché, insomnia - though in your defense you did use the modifier:
"Pretty much"

That's why it was a little confusing to me - with the ads that say "FLASH DEVELOPER!" & you click on it & the list reads "JavaScript, DXHTML, PYTHON, PERL, RUBY...& Flash." Annoying. That in tandem with the fact that I somehow slid from design to development without anyone noticing...
I guess that specifically, I really want to do Game Dev, which I'm sure I'm well qualified to do - not Sr. or anything - too much pressure!

It really boils down to a Catch-22 :
It may be tough to get a good job if you don't know more languages.
The more languages you know, the less you'll be speaking your own.

Scenario:
"I'm interviewing for the Flash position. I love Flash. Flash is my passion. If Flash came in a box, I'd eat it with milk. Flash, Flash, Flash!"
"Do you have any other skills?"
"I can hand-code html, css, xml, I've played with php, etc...But did I mention my addiction to Flash?"
"Great! You're hired, first thing is slice up these 87 designs into html/css."
"ok, when do we get to some Flash?"
"Oh, I don't know, we'll see what comes up..."

- That's why I like "Flash Game Developer" - you can't really misinterpret it.

creativeinsomnia -
sorry, kind of off-subject, but something you said made me think of it - you mentioned "Web Services" - would you happen to be referring to "mx.services.Webservice", & if so, do you know of any links/resources that explain how to get all that SOAPy stuff going? & where can I check out some of your games?

[Frets]

The more languages you know, the less you'll be speaking your own.

Best of luck you will need it. Employers aren't going to downgrade thier standards simply because your not willing to upgrade yours.

[gotoAndCrash]

Frets
While I strongly desire to only work with AS, I am open to learning, & have learned, pieces of other languages in regards to how they work with Flash.
I learn as much as I can as often as I can, but I can't wait until I know everything or I'll be dead.

I'm "willing" to (as needed), but I'd rather not.
Also, read the Scenario immediately following the line you quoted.