The Socialist Nightmare

[hanratty21]

and what would you do to save your life.

^ ^ ^
What does that even mean?

my vote for most insignificant post of the year.

[realMakc]

my vote for most insignificant post of the year.

then how about: lol.

[david petley]

good question though (even if not very relevant), if you were a nazi running from retribution and justice after the war, with your ill-gotten loot, and your 'they done me wrong' look, and your cry of 'it was all Adolph's idea' ...what would you do to save your life.

...would you move to South America?

david

[realMakc]

it was all Adolph's idea

well here we have it. still South America is not that bad compared to life term or death sentence.

[gerbick]

The nazis stashed their money in Switzerland, went to South America because people wouldn't look for them there.

Now, people go to Florida... or Texas to hide. Still stash their money in Switzerland.

Anyway, back on track. The alternatives in this thread really aren't alternatives. They're just a way to keep the uninsured uncovered and their people, covered. And the whole concept of "they've decided to stay that way"... ask a person why they don't have insurance that's not a dopehead instead.

You'd get the one answer that's pretty universal... they can't afford it. They just ran a piece on the news how this one local company stopped covering everybody in its company because it couldn't afford it. Later that day, that same business owner was asking the local politician how to cover his employees.

The politician, a republican... "Do more business."

Brilliant.

[Loyal Rogue]

The more this thread persists... the more I seriously want to propose a fast food tax.

...says the man with the giant hamburger.
[/segue]


Why stop there? Can you imagine the all-you-can-eat-buffet fees? How about giving out fresh fruit and vegetable subsidies? Aw hell, let's just make it simple and go with a straight "Fat tax".

[gerbick]

Don't make me post a non-blond (didn't I post like 3?) or non-hamburger picture (that was not me) of me again.

Seriously. McDonald's "Billions and Billions" served. We already tax all of the other "bad things" in life - alcohol, tobacco, cars. So the last part is fast food.

Tack on 24 cents per meal, it goes straight to the government. I know people will probably go up in arms... so fine. Tax fine foods too... they're high in fat too.

[gerbick]

This is what is going on... and here's the self-proclaimed conservative before saying "Heil Hitler" to man in the first video.

More indicative of what's going on. And the excuses it's just "one person"... listen to her message. It sounds like too many other people in the news, in this thread, or in the world.

[WannaBe_80z]

What is wrong with that women. This travel thing is looking better and better.

[gerbick]

What is wrong with that women. This travel thing is looking better and better.

That woman is a lot more honest than most others. The trend of what she's saying, on both sides... it's there.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

This travel thing is looking better and better.

Go to Israel, get free healthcare, you will need to join the army though and harass the occasional Palestinian/Arab. but you will also get a t-shirt just like the crazy ladies.

[WannaBe_80z]

Yeah I think I'll skip Israel in my travels thanks

[david petley]

for the nazi worshipping woman - mmmooooooooo.

david

[david petley]

did you guys see the longer version of the 'hitler' video, where she is flanked by a couple of heavies who look like they are itching to pick that guy up and take him out in the alley for a 'conversation'?

I am shocked by how het up people are over the possibility of the government providing basic health care to everyone.

[FlashLackey]

...but a shorter life expectancy overall than many other first world countries.

If cancer is your greatest concern, then you should expand your focus a little.

If you remove deaths due to fatal injury (car accidents, violence, etc.) for all countries compared, the life expectancy in the US is one of, if not the best in the world.

Perhaps you can explain how our health care system affects how many car accidents we have.

No, FL is only concerned with the great scourge of mankind, prostate cancer, which our resident cancer PhD confirmed is most unreliable and the worst form of cancer test to base any conclusions from due to the fact that the test doesn't accurately show if you actually have cancer or not.

In CONCORD, direct comparisons were made between survival for patients with breast, colorectal, and prostate cancer in five continents.

Doesn't sound like they included false positives in their statistics. You might also note that they included cancers other than prostate cancer.

But the "keep the status quo" big insurance profit cheerleaders aren't concerned with facts.

Asserting your opinion is not a fact. If you were concerned with facts, it seems like you would be able to provide some that support your position.

The more this thread persists... the more I seriously want to propose a fast food tax.

The segue is in there.

I think it would be great if more people could be convinced to have better eating habits. But, why try to enforce that via a tax? It seems like another way that our public education system fails to me.

Anyway, back on track. The alternatives in this thread really aren't alternatives. They're just a way to keep the uninsured uncovered and their people, covered. And the whole concept of "they've decided to stay that way"... ask a person why they don't have insurance that's not a dopehead instead.

How does the alternative I posted not cover everyone? It gives a voucher covering medical expenses to every citizen.

When you ask all of them, apparently half of them are dopeheads and the other half need assistance. So, it stands to reason that, when making points about how many people are uninsured, we don't include people that are simply being dopeheads.

You'd get the one answer that's pretty universal... they can't afford it. They just ran a piece on the news how this one local company stopped covering everybody in its company because it couldn't afford it. Later that day, that same business owner was asking the local politician how to cover his employees.

Why should a persons health care be tied to their employer in the first place? The only reason that has happened is that the government pays double on the dollar for business health insurance costs. So, it's a way for a company to compensate their employees more than they normally could. When you understand that, you realize that this local business you speak of doesn't make any sense. They can cover their employees by taking the money out of their checks like everyone else does and give them double on the dollar in expense for health insurance. Or, they can not take advantage of the tax savings and pay their employees that money instead.

My alternative takes the money the government used to create those "tax savings" and pools it into vouchers so that everyone is covered, nobody is tied to an employee due to health plans and we can base the amount of the voucher on inflation rather than whatever the insurance companies can finagle.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

I am shocked by how het up people are over the possibility of the government providing basic health care to everyone.

That would be shocking. Unfortunately that isn't what is exactly happening. Instead of doing just that, extending our medicaid program, they are also making changes to overall healthcare and insurance... maybe.

I think if they had just said we are going to extend medicaid to everyone that doesn't have insurance there would be less commotion.

[david petley]

That would be shocking. Unfortunately that isn't what is exactly happening. Instead of doing just that, extending our medicaid program, they are also making changes to overall healthcare and insurance... maybe.

I think if they had just said we are going to extend medicaid to everyone that doesn't have insurance there would be less commotion.

ah, there ya go then ...I said at the beginning of one of these threads that I didn't know much about the US health care system...but it is damn obvious that everyone in a civilised country should have basic health cover ...and the figures for those who don't in the US should be cause for concern, and there should be changes to the health systems to make those numbers drop.

davidp

[gerbick]

How does the alternative I posted not cover everyone? It gives a voucher covering medical expenses to every citizen.

Because it doesn't.

When you ask all of them, apparently half of them are dopeheads and the other half need assistance. So, it stands to reason that, when making points about how many people are uninsured, we don't include people that are simply being dopeheads.

Easy. Test positive at any time for drugs, you're disallowed particular care. You put yourself at risk, pay the consequence.

That would include George W. Bush... cocaine.

Why should a persons health care be tied to their employer in the first place? The only reason that has happened is that the government pays double on the dollar for business health insurance costs. So, it's a way for a company to compensate their employees more than they normally could. When you understand that, you realize that this local business you speak of doesn't make any sense. They can cover their employees by taking the money out of their checks like everyone else does and give them double on the dollar in expense for health insurance. Or, they can not take advantage of the tax savings and pay their employees that money instead.

Good twist, seriously misguided. I don't think you quite understood how this company - or any outside of your own - might cover their employees.

As far as the tax on fast food... again. Put yourself at risk - it's absolutely nothing to do with enforcing good eating habits, you have the choice to eat whatever - but with obesity being a huge, avoidable healthcare issue, you decide to eat wrongly, and later cause an issue... pay for it directly through your ill-decisions.

I'm the same for drug-users. I'd drop people like Rush Limbaugh, or even Obama for that matter - from having the same kind of coverage as a person who couldn't afford it if a government option was ever to see fruition.

However, as it stands. I say that these holier-than-thou people that are out there screaming Nazi, et al. I hope they get what they want in the end.

[FlashLackey]

Because it doesn't.

I proposed a solution that includes giving everyone a voucher to cover yearly health insurance costs and that doesn't mean that I am proposing a solution giving everyone a voucher?

Good twist, seriously misguided. I don't think you quite understood how this company - or any outside of your own - might cover their employees.

Can they or can they not pay for medical insurance out of their employees checks?

As far as the tax on fast food... again. Put yourself at risk - it's absolutely nothing to do with enforcing good eating habits, you have the choice to eat whatever - but with obesity being a huge, avoidable healthcare issue, you decide to eat wrongly, and later cause an issue... pay for it directly through your ill-decisions.

I understand that. But, I don't see taxes as being punitive. They are supposed to be collected for common use. If someone wants to pursue being fat, despite the consequences to their health, punishing them for it kind of goes against the whole life, liberty and pursuit of happiness concept.

I'm the same for drug-users. I'd drop people like Rush Limbaugh, or even Obama for that matter - from having the same kind of coverage as a person who couldn't afford it if a government option was ever to see fruition.

The opposite is likely to happen under a government plan. Treatments for things like drug addiction have more public sway than other lesser known conditions. We've learned that with Medicaid here in Oregon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuek..._embedded#t=47

[asheep_uk]

The opposite is likely to happen under a government plan. Treatments for things like drug addiction have more public sway than other lesser known conditions. We've learned that with Medicaid here in Oregon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuek..._embedded#t=47

That isn't how the NHS works. There is no priority list. Medicaid seems like a rather watered down version of what a proper health service should be.

The idea that the Government will "take over" the healthcare system keeps confusing me. You do know you can still keep your private hospitals, your "choice" of doctors (having now discovered that sometimes you have to be treated at a hospital that your insurance company decides, in Britain, you choose whichever private hospital you want to go to and then the insurance company pay them). You can have all that, your TVs, your private rooms, your "first class" treatment, but you can also have care provided for everybody else.