The NHS & the United States of America

[FlashLackey]

I'm also sober. I rarely drink these days. But, it's been on a my task list for some time to drink more. I just never seem to get to it.

What point are you asking me to prove, specifically?

[gerbick]

No worries. You have nothing to prove.

Have this thread and the others. I have better things to do than participate in these games.

[FlashLackey]

Nobody "has" a thread do they? They're just there for people to participate in.

[Loyal Rogue]

There are always people on both sides of any controversial political subject that play dirty. However, in this case, Obama is pretending that that is ALL that Republicans have done. He cites the lowest common denominator in an attempt to dismiss all opposing voices, including the ones that have put forth legitimate arguments.
...
Many have brought up relevant points. Complaining about the worst opposing arguments is not to address and debate the best ones.

I have to respectfully disagree with you.
Obama has been addressing the largest common denominator (and most vocal) in the opposition, not the least.

The fact that there may be a few islands of sanity within the sea of radical rightwing lunacy that the Republican party has become does not mean that he should ignore the vast majority of the opposition against him no matter how crazy you and I know them to be.
The only way to deal with such overwhelmingly public "lies and smears" is to confront them head-on.
To do anything else would only give them legitimacy in the eyes of the FOX faithful and breed even more ignorance and lies like roach eggs laid in the brains of the conservative masses by the likes of Hannity, Rush, and Beck.

If you want Obama to address the opposition that you think is rational and sane then you're going to have to convince your party to silence the current majority of craziness that is drowning it out and making you all look like a bunch of lunatics first.


On a side note....
I love how you named Sarah Palin, the candidate you voted for Vice President, the "craziest" voice in the opposition.


Unfortunately, a lot of Republican voters (probably yourself included) have a bumper sticker with her name still proudly stuck to their car. For them, she is the standard-bearer for your party, craziness and all.
Change that and you change the debate.

[jAQUAN]

Palin is not a crazy. She simply got swept up in the crazy. Imagine being that popular within hours and under that much scrutiny. She may have cracked up a little because of it but she's hardly incubating the koo-koo's nest. Even Glenn Beck has toned it down a little (Yes Fox news is my new comedy central) but compared to the other incomprehensible rabble rousing lunatics, I simply can't understand the hatred of Michael Moore. Why is he so demonized?

[silverx2]

she would not have been that popular if she wasnt such a hot piece of ass.

[FlashLackey]

I have to respectfully disagree with you.
Obama has been addressing the largest common denominator (and most vocal) in the opposition, not the least.

I respect your disagreement.

On what basis do you conclude what is the most vocal opposition?

And isn't that a really bad way to participate in a debate? Isn't the whole point that, if there is a valid criticism of a plan, it should be addressed regardless of how many people pointed it out? It's not a popularity contest. It's looking for the best logic to apply to a significant problem.

The fact that there may be a few islands of sanity within the sea of radical rightwing lunacy that the Republican party has become does not mean that he should ignore the vast majority of the opposition against him no matter how crazy you and I know them to be.
The only way to deal with such overwhelmingly public "lies and smears" is to confront them head-on.

First, I don't think it's true that the vast majority of Republican opposition is unreasonable. Portraying it as such is simply his strategy. That is bolstered by a number of media outlets that give air time to the lowest common denominator and don't cover the better and more common arguments.

Second, even if this claim were true, a person making a genuine effort to have an intelligent debate should seek out the best opposing arguments he can find and offer an answer.

If you want Obama to address the opposition that you think is rational and sane then you're going to have to convince your party to silence the current majority of craziness that is drowning it out and making you all look like a bunch of lunatics first.

No party can ever prevent some of it's member from making bad arguments, statements or behavior. So, it will always be an option for political parties to cherry-pick those cases and pretend that that represents the majority of the party.

The politician interested in a genuine, intelligent debate will not waste their time or give legitimacy to such arguments by responding to them.

And anyway, you make this statement as if Democrats are winning on this issue. The public option just got voted down twice yesterday. In my opinion, it's in large part due to them insulting the American people who have legitimate concerns by painting them as the lunatic fringe.

On a side note....
I love how you named Sarah Palin, the candidate you voted for Vice President, the "craziest" voice in the opposition.

I wasn't meaning to respond to that case specifically. I don't think that Palin is the best debater for conservative principles. But, I think that the obsessive and hysterical reaction of the left to anything that she does is crazier than anything she has ever said or done.

Unfortunately, a lot of Republican voters (probably yourself included) have a bumper sticker with her name still proudly stuck to their car. For them, she is the standard-bearer for your party, craziness and all.
Change that and you change the debate.

No. I'm not a bumper sticker kind of person. That's more of a liberal thing.

Why would I want to change the debate when the side I disagree with is losing?

I simply can't understand the hatred of Michael Moore. Why is he so demonized?

Hate is a strong word. I don't hate him. But, I think it's pretty bad that he believes that the opposite of capitalism is democracy.

[jAQUAN]

Hate is a strong word. I don't hate him. But, I think it's pretty bad that he believes that the opposite of capitalism is democracy.

If that's true then I agree, pretty stupid.

[FlashLackey]

Couldn't find a youtube clip. But, he says it on the last Real Time he was on while pitching his new movie. Bill Maher even questions him on it but Moore insists.

[Frets]

she would not have been that popular if she wasnt such a hot piece of ass.

Bleh Cute only goes so far. What keeps her spotlight is shock value media candy. If conservatives can throw Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck under the bus they can do the same to palin.

[gerbick]

Bleh Cute only goes so far. What keeps her spotlight is shock value media candy. If conservatives can throw Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck under the bus they can do the same to palin.

She quit her job. So that makes her less of a liability. Sure, she can say whatever she wants now. And who knows... it might become a sound byte or two.

Beck and Coulter... they're not under any bus.