Saddam Removal Plan

[Visionray]

Originally posted by david petley

Originally posted by Visionray

Originally posted by david petley


maybe, though the same tactics have not worked against Cuba. The people there don't blame their leader for keeping them poor, they blame the US for keeping them poor.

dp

Not necessarily. There is an extremely large percentage of the Cuban population who blame Castro for their economic woes. Thats why thousands upon thousands have fled to the US and set up base in Miami. These people HATE Castro with all their heart...and they all vote vote for the Republican's who are more hard line with the Castro regime.

Right-wingers can always count on the vote from the Cuban Americans.

a large percentage......how do you do in maths?

thousands upon thousands is not a large percentage of the millions of peope who live happily in Cuba, cursing the US for keeping on interfering in their lives for more tha 30 years. Dayum, talk about holding a grudge.

david p.

Yes maybe I was throwing out numbers, but I don't have the accurate data of the amount of Cubans who hate Castro - just as you don't have an accurate estimate of Cubans who hate the U.S.

If you've ever been to Miami, which you haven't, you would realize what a huge Cuban American community there is there. They practically dominate the place. And they pretty much all hate Castro and vote republican. They have set up huge lobby groups in the U.S. to rally the government against Castro in support of current U.S. policy. Believe it. Currently, there are over one million Cuban Americans living in the U.S. Cubans also get preferencial treatment for asylum issues in the U.S. Right now, the United States lets in 20,000 Cubans a year. That is a small percentage of the actual amount of attempts at immigration. Doesn't that say something?

Cuban-American dissidents are a very organized group with a common goal. That goal is the downfall of Castro's regime. This goal happens to be shared with the United States Government. Because Cuban-Americans despise communism, the government and the American people have readily supported and praised the Cuban dissident community. Lets not forget about the whole Elian Gonzalas fiasco, in which Cuban Americans freaked at the thought of sending this boy back to Cuba.

And all these Cubans who are in the U.S. rallying against Castro are the ones that actually made it over here. Every day the U.S. coast guard has to turn away boat after boat of immigrants trying to make it to the U.S. The one's that are granted aslyum usually fall into a certain criteria:

Cubans who may apply for refugee interviews in Havana include; former political prisoners, members of persecuted religious minorities, human rights activists, forced labor conscripts during the period 1965 through 1988, persons deprived of their profession, harsh discriminatory treatment resulting from their perceived or actual political or religious beliefs, and others who appear to have a credible claim, that they will face persecution as defined in the United Nations refugee convention.

Do you honestly think that Cubans like the idea of not being able to use computers? Thats not the U.S.'s fault is it? But Im sure someone can find a way to blame Castro's dictatorial tendencies on U.S. policy.

Also, the U.S. is interfering in Cuban lives? Where in the world are you getting this information??? How is the U.S. interfering? Just because we don't buy their cigars and agricultural products? If anything we are disengaged.
The only time we "interfered" was the Bay of Pigs and the assassination attempt on Castro.

[Visionray]

Let me add just one more thing David. You might be surprised to realize that I actually disagree with U.S. policy in Cuba. I think they should lift the embargo because the poor people will benefit from this. BUT, i am not quick to assume that Castro is not the dictator who opresses his people that he actually is.

[cyk]

Originally posted by tonytryout

Originally posted by cyk

Originally posted by tonytryout

Originally posted by swampy
wasn't my link.

The conspiracy theory about the jewish workers not turning up for work is ludicrous.

Sorry man -- it was cyk. With reference to the jewish worker not turning up for work -- I did not write the report myself. All I said was that there was an unconfirmed report and denied by Bush admin.
Saying that, I am keeping an open mind -- it is now difficult to know which is truth and which is lies. When was the last time you heard a politician telling a truth? remember Clinton lied under oath

At the end of the day, there would not be so much trouble if Bush admin had not supported Isreal so strongly and have the decency to admit wrong doings. And stop being so aggorant towards other countries for example I remember a summit meeting a couple of months ago to talk about pollution and globalisation, all countries agreed to cut down on pollution production. USA did not bother to turn up and in the nicest way possible said "**** off" to the other countries. That is one of the many reasons why there are a lot of resentments.

That was NOT the story I was pointing to- there were many many Jewish people killed in the 9/11 attacks- to suggest this was planned by our own government--well I'm not even going to suggest something so absurd-


-tonytryout I don't want to be associated with that type of idiocy (I have my very own)-can you please re-check the article if neccassary(its the Paula Zahn interview) and edit your post accordingly . Meaning do not refernce me as posting a link to the story you describe- I want nothing to do with that mentality.
[Edited by cyk on 06-17-2002 at 01:47 PM]

You did provide the link -- I never mentioned about the link containing the jewish workers report. But here goes anyway:
FKers (and CIA, MI5, etc. if you are watching this space) please be aware that the Bush News link and the unconfirmed jewish workers are not related. I don't want any abuses or any questions directed at cyk about the story.

-cyk: you must understand that I never said that I had got the report from the link that you provided. Let's be clear and no need for nastiness either (quote: "...type of idiocy.."). [/B]

I wasn't directing it at you-

you stated that I posted a link to an article on how Jews were behind the 9/11 attack- I assumed you looked at the wrong story on the page I linked to. Iwas referring to the story about Bush negotiating with the Taliban over an Afghan oil pipeline.

Sorry man -- it was cyk. With reference to the jewish worker not turning up for work

if you read this you may see why I thought you were referring it to me.

anyway I was saying that the presumed story was idiotic not that you were. I agree with you on most of the issues discussed here

sorry for the misunderstanding

peace

[phlegm_thrower]

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar


well this is going to sound like some crazy crap. But I believe once a war starts there can be no crime. War itself is a crime. I suspect anything that tries to legitimize war. So if there are crimes or war, then some things of war must be o.k.????

And both of the atomic bombs did less damage than the conventional bombing of tokyo. For that matter what qualifies as a weapon of mass distruction?

The japanese execs that i was refering to were raping western women brought into japan. neither case is acceptable. If it was up to me all rapists would take a dirt nap.

What did the U.S. want from china?

as far as this whole oil BS, if the u.s. was really driven by oil, the u.s. would be making very very friendly with Iran. Iran has one of the largest untapped oil fields in the world. But The u.s. gov did not allow american companies from investing and bidding on the contract to drill and sell it. The U.S. gov maintianed an embargo that would have allowed the U.S. to tell saudi and a great many other countries to piss off. The U.S. can also drill oil out of alaska to last until we do not need oil.

u're mistaken there... after the war with NAZI, a lot of NAZI officers were apprehended on charge of crime against humanity... i realised what USA did weren't as bad as wat the NAZI did but it's still quite heineous...

the bombing in Japan was in no way conventional... nuclear bomb is just an upgrade of atomic bomb... both of them will result is massive irradiation...

ehm... wat u say about bringing western women into japan... no offense but not all of them are raped... most of them are probably just sex workers... and same thing happen in america as well... how many oriental wemon brought to america and forced to be sex workers?? those things, as much as i hate to admit it are rather normal events which can happen anywhere in the world... wat i was trying to say is if US doesn't station troops in Japan those rapes would not have happen... now how many other countries station their army in other countries apart from their own???

now i don't claim to know what america wants from china at the time... but i do know America-China relationship has never been cordial... now it is only logical to assume that US will benefit from helping China... otherwise why help someone u don't even like??? im sorry but innate altruism is just not good enough explanation...

[tonytryout]

Originally posted by cyk
You did provide the link -- I never mentioned about the link containing the jewish workers report. But here goes anyway:
FKers (and CIA, MI5, etc. if you are watching this space) please be aware that the Bush News link and the unconfirmed jewish workers are not related. I don't want any abuses or any questions directed at cyk about the story.

-cyk: you must understand that I never said that I had got the report from the link that you provided. Let's be clear and no need for nastiness either (quote: "...type of idiocy.."). [/B]

I wasn't directing it at you-

you stated that I posted a link to an article on how Jews were behind the 9/11 attack- I assumed you looked at the wrong story on the page I linked to. Iwas referring to the story about Bush negotiating with the Taliban over an Afghan oil pipeline.

Sorry man -- it was cyk. With reference to the jewish worker not turning up for work

if you read this you may see why I thought you were referring it to me.

anyway I was saying that the presumed story was idiotic not that you were. I agree with you on most of the issues discussed here

sorry for the misunderstanding

peace [/B][/QUOTE]

If you see this:

Sorry man -- it was cyk. With reference to the jewish worker not turning up for work

This was directed at swampy. The first sentance was for his post about the link itself. The second one was a separate reply (hence "with reference to..").
But I should have used a new paragraph so for that I apologise.

We were almost nearing to World War 3 were we!!!

peace. Let's have a pint next time...

[cyk]

sounds good to me- any time

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Originally posted by phlegm_thrower
[

u're mistaken there... after the war with NAZI, a lot of NAZI officers were apprehended on charge of crime against humanity... i realised what USA did weren't as bad as wat the NAZI did but it's still quite heineous...

And some where enlisted in the french army for their conflict in southeast asia. Somewhere hired to make weapons for the US, and USSR. Some went to brazil. some went to africa.

the bombing in Japan was in no way conventional... nuclear bomb is just an upgrade of atomic bomb... both of them will result is massive irradiation...

actually an airburst nuclear weapon does not cause nearly as much radiation and fallout as a groundburst atomic weapon. And the lives lost to both atomic weapons (including later radiation sickness) still does not equal the number of lives lost to conventional bombing of other japanese cities.

wat i was trying to say is if US doesn't station troops in Japan those rapes would not have happen... now how many other countries station their army in other countries apart from their own???

Alot of nations do. U.K. does. Russia does to a small extent. Aulstralia might. This is indeed a left over of the cold war. when two empires were fighting. They (like all empires throughout history) had their armies everywhere. But I agree, there currently is no reason for the U.S. for the U.S. to be there. However there may be a reason for Japan for the U.S. to be there.

now i don't claim to know what america wants from china at the time... but i do know America-China relationship has never been cordial... now it is only logical to assume that US will benefit from helping China... otherwise why help someone u don't even like???

I believe at the time the U.S. and China were nearly swapping spit in the shower(remember at the time China was not a communisism and they were a little scared of japan). IT was of course based on mutual economic gain.

[phlegm_thrower]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar

And some where enlisted in the french army for their conflict in southeast asia. Somewhere hired to make weapons for the US, and USSR. Some went to brazil. some went to africa.

sorry i don't get that part.. wat are u trying to say???

actually an airburst nuclear weapon does not cause nearly as much radiation and fallout as a groundburst atomic weapon. And the lives lost to both atomic weapons (including later radiation sickness) still does not equal the number of lives lost to conventional bombing of other japanese cities.

so u're saying the use of JUST AN ATOMIC BOMB is ok as long as it's not nuclear?? i wonder wat u gonna say if it was YOUR city...

Alot of nations do. U.K. does. Russia does to a small extent. Aulstralia might. This is indeed a left over of the cold war. when two empires were fighting. They (like all empires throughout history) had their armies everywhere. But I agree, there currently is no reason for the U.S. for the U.S. to be there. However there may be a reason for Japan for the U.S. to be there.

where are they stationed? the UK and Russian troops? i never heard of UK or Russian military base in any countries... i heard about US military base in places like Philipine, Japan and lots of other countries...

I believe at the time the U.S. and China were nearly swapping spit in the shower(remember at the time China was not a communisism and they were a little scared of japan). IT was of course based on mutual economic gain.

nope sorry man... China never trusted western countries even when it was still a kingdom... and they NEVER had any economic relation with any western countries at the time... China only open itself up to foreigners not that long ago...

[crazybonkers]

Yawn… Yawn… Yawn!

[gerbick]

Originally posted by crazybonkers
Yawn… Yawn… Yawn!

you got me yawning now.

was this trip necessary?

[swampy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by phlegm_thrower

Originally posted by TallGuyLittleCar

And some where enlisted in the french army for their conflict in southeast asia. Somewhere hired to make weapons for the US, and USSR. Some went to brazil. some went to africa.

sorry i don't get that part.. wat are u trying to say???

He's trying to say that Nazi scientists - those that experimented on Jews, Gypsies, Vagrants, Handicapped and Political Dissidents in the concentration camps - were absolved of their crimes and employed by various countries after the war. Notably NASA employed various Nazi scientists on the space programe. These scientists were made up in part by rocket engineers who had worked on the V1 and V2 missiles and ramjet technology plane prototypes such as the ME 263.

They also employed scientists who had conducted aviation and atmosphere / G-Force experiments on priusoners in the concentration camps, these experiments included submersing prisoners iin sub zero temperature waters and timing the time it took for them to die.

The CIA also made extensive use of a network of ex SS members, notable Emil Augsburg - an ex-ss officer - in their crusade against communism.

[fancy a brew ??]

All this talk of government sponsored assassination, war crimes and economic 'weapons' reminds me of an essay I had to write at uni. I toiled away for 5000 words about the various definitions of war and peace, then I found a quote by a certain gentleman called Martin Luther King, who said more in a single sentence than I had managed in 10 pages:

"Peace is not the absence of war, it is the presence of justice."

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Originally posted by phlegm_thrower

so u're saying the use of JUST AN ATOMIC BOMB is ok as long as it's not nuclear?? i wonder wat u gonna say if it was YOUR city...

Could care less either way as I would be dead. Wether it be incindery, explosive, atomic, nuclear, nuetron, either way I would be dead. And it would be during war time.

where are they stationed? the UK and Russian troops? i never heard of UK or Russian military base in any countries... i heard about US military base in places like Philipine, Japan and lots of other countries...

Look it up. Its far far less than the U.S.. However during the Coldwar, USSR was in a lot of places. I"m not going to argue that the U.S. is not behaving like an empire. Becuase it is behaving like an empire. There supposably plans to pull this back... but things changed.

nope sorry man... China never trusted western countries even when it was still a kingdom... and they NEVER had any economic relation with any western countries at the time... China only open itself up to foreigners not that long ago...

Guess we have different History books.