BUG ALERT!! stttuuttter on cd-rom

**liquid_len** · 09-12-2002, 03:09 AM

[email protected]

Hello,
I've created a large flash presentation on cd-rom and have experienced the stutter problem that has been mentioned on a few threads.(the client did some tests and the results were, well...TERRIBLE). The swf's are approx 10-20 megs each and load into the main navigation using the loadmovie,target...
My question is...have you been able or have any info at all on how to fix this problem? I'll be e-mailing everyone that I thinkcan help, and post and e-mail any info I get.Please help if you can!
thx,
Len

**ci-berpages** · 09-12-2002, 02:00 PM

Swf files are vector, with causes the processor to work hard than if the file was a raster file. Compounding on that, a Swf file is loaded completely into memory, or virtual memory(vm). Vm is considerably slower than regular memory, but its need for when you fill up regular memory. To cut to the chase, your filling up regular memory with your app, and its being written to virtual memory. The only solution I can see is to get enough memory to run your Flash file and it not be paged out. However I don't know if it is possible tho, I read in this months pc world about memory tests, that doubling the memory really doesn't help speed. But I figure it should work.

**liquid_len** · 09-13-2002, 03:28 PM

I don't believe this is a solution...How can I change those mem settings on the end user's computer? The problem is not on MY computer...it's on various computers tested when running the presentation from the cd-rom...thx though!

**ci-berpages** · 09-13-2002, 03:54 PM

Thats just the way it goes, you can't run swf's effectivley that consume more memory than the machine has availible. Its like trying to tow a semi trailer and using the excuse well my ford escort has a towing hitch.

**liquid_len** · 09-13-2002, 07:40 PM

ummm...I don't believe it to be a memory issue....How much ram is required to run a 20 meg swf after all? The movies are loaded and unloaded,,,,no swf is larger than 20 megs (most are 4-5 megs). I appreciate your help, but perhaps if you tested for yourself (burn a cd with 10 or so swf's loaded into a main movie with loadmovie,target), and try running the cd on a few machines you'll see what I mean.....Why should Flash run less effectively than say an audio cd, a Director presentation or a whole series of other games y'dig? It seems specific to video in MX as far as I can tell, and /or have heard from others...

**liquid_len** · 09-13-2002, 07:41 PM

....it's more like I can't tow a u-haul, and I have an 18 wheeler...lol...

**ci-berpages** · 09-13-2002, 07:51 PM

Try this, run a resource meter that monitors your memory and your processor usage while you run these files. Just because you unload a Flash movie doesn't mean it has been unloaded from memory. You have to close Flash to unload all files from memory. Hmm You might be getting a stutter from the files not being read off the CD drive fast enough, but I doubt that, unless the player is really slow and the files are really front heavy.

**iziaee** · 09-13-2002, 09:42 PM

Hi...
Ahem 40-50 MB Swf's?????
Flash was created to be a web based multimedia development tool. As such the Flash PLAYER can handle limited amount of swf sizes. As far as my experience goes ( having come out with 2 standalone Flash developed CDROMS) anything greater that 1 MB crashes on a computer ( at the users end) because usually the specs are low.
My solution to u wud be to make different 1 MB files ( swf's) and then load them sequentially as required.
Hope it helps.

**liquid_len** · 09-14-2002, 12:59 AM

ahem....10-20 megs!not 40-50....
With video imbedded files...hardly large at all!
MacroMedia designed MX for video...so it SHOULD handle it. There is no info or spec that says cd-rom multimedia presentations shouldn't be done in flash...
besides then...please tell me of an easier way to have an instructional video play while offscreen a series of text bullets play....I believe in Director you have to set cues on the video...script to sync with text...create separate text objects etc etc...the nightmare continues...
Y'all no where i'm coming from?
If anyone could give me any Director tutorial links (for PC) on syncing video with text, please let me know
thx
L

**jasonsplace** · 09-14-2002, 01:16 AM

I recently created a standalone training program with a login and everything. The project is about 175 mb and runs just fine on all of my companies computers. Isn't flash MX supposed to be able to handle stuff besides web based projects.

**liquid_len** · 09-14-2002, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by jasonsplace
I recently created a standalone training program with a login and everything. The project is about 175 mb and runs just fine on all of my companies computers. Isn't flash MX supposed to be able to handle stuff besides web based projects.

Did you use embedded MX video in this presentation? For that is where the problem seems to lie...

Apparently MM will be posting a Technote soon on this subject ( a fix would be better).If Flash copied the files/app onto the enduser's harddrive and ran it from there...that could possibly fix the problem...Though obviously you wouldn't want it to have to copy all the files (the presentation could be quite large after all)....It seems to me to be a STREAMING from cd-rom issue

I'm surprised there are not a lot more posts on this problem! I guess not a lot of cd-rom authoring users. I would use Director, but show me an easy way to sync Video with Text bullets animated beside the video y'dig?

**jasonsplace** · 09-15-2002, 11:27 PM

I didn't use any embedded video. It was all 1 big file.

**Flash 'N Pack** · 09-16-2002, 02:13 AM

Here is a solution that may work for you:
Flash 'N pack, has a new Feature that was introduced in Version 1.0.0.4 Beta can be downloaded from here: http://www.flashnpack.com/forum under news section...

again make sure you use version 1.0.0.4 or later....

anyway after you download the program run this command before you start your flash movie:

fscommand ("Memory.defrag", "Results");

Where Resutls in a flash Variable that will show you the progress...

what does this do to your users computer:

It will release any lost memory, therefore recovering this memory will make your flash Movie to run faster..

with Flash 'N pack you can do a lot more then that try it..

You can get the full version 1.0.0.3 from http://www.flashnpack.com
Let me know if that helped..

**mousey_jay** · 09-16-2002, 08:01 PM

I have joined the band of head-bangers with this problem too although I don't suffer the st-st-st-stutter thing, just stop and re-wind to the first frame or just stop sound.
(My thread here: http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...hreadid=369173 )

I have been offered the solution:
You can try to make sepparate movies, that will decrease the need of RAM memory, How you say? ok, make different movies (chop the big one in to little pieces) and export each one as a .swf and make the one before load the next one i usually name them 1 - 2 - 3 and so on its easy so the code would be something like this: "loadMovieNum("2.swf", 0);" notice that the level is 0 wich means that all other movies that were previously loaded are unloaded.

I praised the bloke because I thought this solved it (and maybe it did because I live way out in the sticks and haven't yet tested it on the machine where I suffered the problem - I don't see it on my 350Mhz with 160Mb RAM)

Are you saying that even though I use an .EXE file to load the first .SWF and then each subsequent .SWF loads the next .SWF, that all are infact loaded into the memory upon execution of the first .EXE file? And that "unload" in fact only unloads from the Player and not the memory? If so I still have the problem huh?

Are you guys all loading at level 0? or 1?

**CHEERS**
Mousey

**SuperbBoy** · 09-16-2002, 08:02 PM

I'm not SUPER-EXPERIENCED with authoring CD-Roms, i've only made two so far, but in the next two months, i'm going to be making 2 more, and these will be BIG presentations, iplementing video, lots of audio, and all that, so i've been talking to my friends about preparations for these big cd-roms. So all that being said.....

My only suggestion would be this: THE FRAME RATE.
Older computers, with processors which aren't that great, WILL have problems with high frame rates. Mind you, my computer at work is a 1.5 Ghz P4 processor, with 512 megs of RAM, and there are now far better computers out, but the fact remains, that a P4 1.5ghz is WAY WAY better than a P3 300mhz, just as an example. You throw a P2 processor into the equasion instead of that P3, and you have a HUGE difference from MY computer to the END-USER's P2. Therefore, i had to set my frame rate on my last project to 20 frames/sec, and mind you, the motion graphics still looked pretty darn good. if you have a high frame rate on your project, it'll look great on your awesome processor, but it'll look like pure crap, STUTTERING ALL THE TIME, on another machine that isn't as powerful. When i say "powerful", i mean in processor speed and available Ram.

So, try lowering your frame rate on your project (maybe between 20 and 24 fps), burn the whole project to a cd-rom, and try it on the machines where it had previosly stuttered, and then let me know how it goes. I honestly think that this may be a solution, because a high frame rate on slow computers has ALWAYS created stutters in the tests i've done.

also, if the "memory defrag" actually works with that Flash N Pack, then that would be a really really cool tool to have in your arsenal. Doing that would free up the essential RAM that your end-users are definitely needing if your files are utilizing lots of video, as you said the presentations are chock full of video files. i might be taking advantage of that cool tool myself on my next big Flash Video project.

anyway, i hope that helps.

...jonathan SuperbBoy (a.k.a."liquid nitrogen")

.

**mousey_jay** · 09-16-2002, 08:17 PM

BTW.... Mine is only 12fps

**CHEERS**
Mousey

**liquid_len** · 09-17-2002, 12:09 AM

Hello again fellow headbangers

Thoughts:

1> I don't believe framerate is much of an issue (perhaps with really high frame rates) as the video is embedded at a frame rate of 15fps (which is also my movie's fps).

2> It seems to be a streaming issue particular to the new video features of MX ( and perhaps audio...haven't tested)

3> My movie IS chopped up into smaller bits(10 -20megs) where the swf's load into the main navigation swf (size -500k) with loadmovie, target ,(where target is a placeholder in the _root movie). I even scripted unloadmovie into it before it loads the next swf (which is really redundant as this happens anyway)

4>I think the thread of flushing the RAM with sometype of FS command or the Flash n Pack thingy seems to hold the most promise as possible solutions..

I'm not an expert at flash or scripting by any stretch but in my experience with this problem (which i've been harping on for a while, check the posts ,lol....search liquid_len)
this is the best POSSIBLE solution at this point.
Please try it (as I will) and get back (post).

Hope I don'thave to buy FlashnPack or the other that was mentioned on another thread (FlashJestor I believe), as these may not work either!
GL ALL!

**SuperbBoy** · 09-17-2002, 02:11 AM

Welp, sorry the frame rate thing wasn't any help. :-( Please keep us all posted with your progress though, i'm curious to see what becomes of your project...

...jonathan

.

**Flash 'N Pack** · 09-19-2002, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Flash 'N Pack
Here is a solution that may work for you:
Flash 'N pack, has a new Feature that was introduced in Version 1.0.0.4 Beta can be downloaded from here: http://www.flashnpack.com/forum under news section...

again make sure you use version 1.0.0.4 or later....

anyway after you download the program run this command before you start your flash movie:

fscommand ("Memory.defrag", "Results");

Where Resutls in a flash Variable that will show you the progress...

what does this do to your users computer:

It will release any lost memory, therefore recovering this memory will make your flash Movie to run faster..

with Flash 'N pack you can do a lot more then that try it..

You can get the full version 1.0.0.3 from http://www.flashnpack.com
Let me know if that helped..

Just a follow up on this did you get your project to work successfully using the above method or no....?

**liquid_len** · 09-19-2002, 03:55 PM

I don't think flashn'pack is a solution. I cant expect the end-user to run a program in order to run a program. I could simply have them copy the swf's to their hard drive if I wanted it to run smoothly. Besides making available memory to run the movie may not work for the whole movie. I cant see running this multiple times as an option.

Think i'm going to have to use Director for this.
Will publish the synced embedded video with text animation as a quicktime and control them in Director.

Thread: BUG ALERT!! stttuuttter on cd-rom

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Stretching it a wee bit too far - Stutttter on CDROMS

was it video in MX?

...at least i know i'm not going mad!

My solution...

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