The Grand Multiplayer Thread

[Ihoss]

i didnt do anything with my router and i used my pc ip (on the network). it works swell. wird thouhg. well, round easter ill get my mums old pc, so then ill get my own server.

[problems4me]

you gotta make the game to go with it too though!
I was planning on making a checkers game, probably far too difficult for a simpleton like me, but a good project nethertheless!

W.

[Ihoss]

ill use my 3d racing game and make it multiplayer. but that wont be for a while...

[webgeek]

Making a racing game multiplayer would be tricky. It might be easiest to start with a simple turn-based game first and work your way up from there. Good luck!

Mike

[Ihoss]

thanx (the good luck part).

i managed to make a very simple mc move multiplayer just now, so it cant be that hard. ill probably follow ur advice though. i got a turnaround based strategy game that i want to make into a turnbased game over the net. ill see how that goes

[relentlesscreat]

I have made a game with RlectroServer 3, but it was very unstable. I really like the ease of it all, but I prefer es2 for the simple fact that it is more stable. I am very interested in getting a bigger license es3 had 20 users default, but es2 has only five, I need to know the price for a license 20 to 50 user license in ES2.
Hopefully since it is supposed to be obsolete, it will be les than the Es3 prices.

[webgeek]

You mention that ElectroServer 3 is unstable... I'm actually quite suprised to hear that! We have load tested the server to over 5000 concurrent users on a dual processor Windows 2003 box. At that point, Windows wouldn't allow any more inbound socket connections but the server was running fine. We have also stress tested the server for weeks at 1000+ concurrent connections.

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly was your application doing? Was it sending very large messages? What about using room or user variables? If you were using room variables, were you deleting them at some point or just leaving? We have two current bugs that we know can cause server instability and we expect both to be corrected within a couple of days. In the meantime, it is quite easy to avoid either one as they have simple workarounds.

For support reasons, we are not really interested in selling any more copies of ElectroServer 2. I can 100% promise you that ElectroServer 3 is better in every way then ElectroServer 2 . If you can contact me at [email protected] we can go ahead and diagnose the problem and get it fixed for you (and everyone else) ASAP. I'm sure Jobe and I can work out some sort of deal to compensate you for the inconvenience. Thanks!

Michael Grundvig
Electrotank, Inc.

[jobemjobem]

Hi relentlesscreat,

Webgeek is right. ES3 is stable-as-hell.

If it crashed, then that probably means that something odd happended, like accidentally trying to create rooms with no names, or creating a plug-in that was not coded properly.

The most likely problem is what Mike asked about, large messages. In the configuration file you can specify the maximum size of a message. The default size limit is pretty low (which we are changing in the next version). If you break that limit then the server can crash. We are fixing that problem as well. But in the mean time you can just change the limit to something higher in the configuration.xml file and you are golden

[relentlesscreat]

Hi,

Your Electroserver installation has been reset, and it is now fully
functionl. I'm very sorry for the trouble you've been experiencing with
this - a number of our customers have gone back to version 2 as they've
found it much more stable.

Once again, our humblest apologies.

Regards,

Milan.

that's an e-mail I got from Milan hawkins the guy who runs webgamehost.com I personally dealt with three occurences in which after two days, my game screwed up and stopped working, after working fine. Your experiences may differ from mine, all I know is that now that I'm using es2 the problem is no more. All that is beyond the point, I am simply wondering if you are selling licenses for es2 because I would like to purchase one. If my es3 was working fine I'd purchase a license for that, but it's not so this is all I can do.

[jobemjobem]

relentlesscreat,

Hmm, ok. I'll send Milan an email about that. It is probably the same issue.

Of course there are many people/companies using ElectroServer 3, but there is one company that was involved with us during the beta. They put up a system on their site the same week that we launched ElectroServer 3 in September. ElectroServer 3 has not crashed for them, not once. But then again, they knew about the bug that we are working on and made the simple change in the coniguration file to fix it.

Their site isn't all that big, but at any given time they have 50-100 users chatting.

Since then the stability has been demonstrated by Electrotank.com, Slingo.com, and MiniClip.com.

I'll work it out with Milan so that he knows what to do.

[relentlesscreat]

Are there any hosting alternatives to www.webgamehost.com, and if not, will a dedicated server do? If that is the case what kind of server do I need?

[ryumx]

hi why i can't run the client in web?
run you java commserver in my computer
later i run the client swf. It can connected the server.
but i post the client in my homepage ,in ie it can't connected the server.why?
the IP and Port is right.

[ryumx]

My friend download that client.swf use flashplayer open it .it can connect the server.but it also can't use IE connected the server.

[jobemjobem]

Hi relentlesscreat,

I don't know of any ISP off hand that lists ElectroServer 3 as something that they guarantee to support.

Yes, a dedicated server will be fine. Any dedicated server would work, as long as it supports the Java Virtual Machine....which Windows, Macs, and Linux do with no problem.

[ryumx]

Ed Mack can u help me?
why the user use Internet Explorer open swf client file can't connect the server?

[M@dster]

Thanks for a great thread, have read it all and allready feel a lot more confident with this topic.

However, I would like to know if somebody has compared all of the, in this thread, mentioned servers? (Macromedia Communication Server, Electrotank ElectroServer, Moock Unity and Oregano Multiuser Server)

Both with regards to features, easy of use and last, but very important, performance wise.

I have read a good bit of the documentation of all of them, but, having to make a comparable test setup for each and everyone would take forever, and, as always, I'm in a bit of a hurry.

Thanks for your feedback!

M@dster

[jobemjobem]

Hi M@dster,

I am definately biased because I am one of the ElectroServer 3 owners. But let me give as you un-biased an analysis as I can muster. I'll try to take into account price, ease of use, support, and the features we really care about, those relating to games.

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Xadra's Fortress
---------
Cost: Starts low, in the low hundreds. But to do anything, like support rooms, you have to start buying add ons...which are expensive. A basic set up with room support and up to 1,000 simultaneous users will run about $4,000.

Ease-of-use: I have never used it, but from what I hear you should be very familiar with Java apps and how to get them to work together.

Scalability: Supports 2,000 users per server instance. Multiple instances can be pooled together. You might need another add on for that, but I'm not sure. So theoretically, there is no limit to the number of supported users simultaneously (assuming you have all of the features purchased).

Stability: From what I hear, this is very stable. Xadra is a very professional company that creates solid products.

Extendability: I think Fortress is supposed to be very "open" for you to hook up your own Java-written add ons.

Built-in Multiplayer Game features: None that I am aware of. Please correct this post if anyone knows.

Future support: I expect that this will be around for quite some time.

Community penetration: If you need to talk to people on Flashkit for help using this server, you might have trouble finding other knowledgable people. This server extends beyond the Flash market.

Other features: Fortress can tunnel through firewalls using an HTTP trick. That is an extra add on.

Conclusion: Most useful for Java-heads who can get this thing running and can write the extensions needed to make it a great application. Casual users will find it too expensive and too difficult.

---------
Moock's Unity
---------
Cost: Very low. For $700 you can buy their unlimited license. The catch is that (I think) they may only support up to 400 or 500 simultaneous users.

Ease-of-use: Like with Fortress, I have never used it. I hear that it is much easier than Fortress to set up, but still not a *really* easy. However, once set up, I hear that it is nice to develop with.

Scalability: As with all info provided here, if someone knows differently, then tell me. But I *think* that Unity can only guarantee about 400-500 simultaneous users. They use a certain type of thread model in the server that will max out the server's cpu with too many users.

Stability: I think that it is pretty stable up to the user limit.

Extendability: I couldn't find much information on this, but their site says that you can extend any part of the server.

Built-in Multiplayer Game features: None that I am aware of. But if you can extend any part of the server, then you can build in some cool stuff.

Future support: I expect that this will be around for a long time.

Community penetration: I think that there are a lot of people on Flashkit who have used this server. So you can probably find assistance if needed.

Other features: It has a great remote admin user interface.

Conclusion: Unity is a great choice for applications that will not be used by more than a few hundred users simultaneously. The price is nice and the feature set is respectable. Small site owners will find it within their price range.

---------
Oregan Server
---------
I really don't have much to say about this one. All I can do is point out a few things:
1) This is a free open-source server.
2) As a free open-source server, you pay nothing but at the same time you should expect to get no support or guarantees in return. You should consider yourself warned that if you find a hideous bug after you have launched your kick-ass application, you might be up a creek.
3) Conclusion If you are a Java guru and are familiar with server development, then this could be a dream come true.

---------
Macromedia's Flash Communication Server
---------
Cost: Varies. The lowest cost is $500 for 50 simultaneous connections. For 2,500 simultaneous, the cost is $4,500. For unlimited, the cost is $7,500 every 90 days.

Ease-of-use: Very easy to install. Easy to configure. Easy to develop against. (note: This is only for Windows machines)

Scalability: Able to scale to thousands of simultaneous users.

Stability: From what I have heard, the stability is rock solid.

Extendability: I couldn't find much information on this, but their site says that it supports server-side ActionScript. I am not sure if there is database support, but I think there is Flash-remoting support, which has database support. So, you might need to own multiple products.

Built-in Multiplayer Game features: Server-side ActionScript. Remote shared objects.

Future support: I expect that this will be around for a long time.

Community penetration: I think that there are a lot of people on Flashkit who have used this server. So you can probably find assistance if needed.

Other features: Streaming sound and video are supported. Although it is my opinion (for this version at least) that this is over rated. I developed an app and there was up to a 5 second delay with sounds and we were both on DSL. But it could work awesome under certain circumstances.

Conclusion: FlashComm is a great and stable server that is easy to work with. However, the cost *can* be pricey, and you have less of a chance in being hear for feature requests as you do with the other companies here.

---------
Electrotank's ElectroServer 3
---------
Cost: Varies. 20 users are supported for free. For $299 you get a 50-user license. For $2999 you get the unlimited license, which has been tested to at least 5,000 simultaneous.

Ease-of-use: Installation, starting the server, and development are a breeze. Support for all operating systems. Full documentation. Tons of example source files.

Scalability: ElectroServer 3 has been tested to up to 5,000 simultaneous users. The test stopped there because the machine's operating system would not allow more than 5,000 open connections. At 5,000 the computer was only using 10% of its RAM and 70% of its CPU.

Stability: Extremely stable out-of-the box. However, instabilities can be introduced when extending the server with custom-written extensions if not done with care.

Extendability: Can be extended easily. There is server-side ActionScript support. ElectroServer 3 supports what is calle "server-side plug-ins". They can run per room or per server instance. A plug-in can be something that, for instance, does pathfinding, shuffles a deck of cards, controls an AI opponent, etc. Plug-ins can be written with ActionScript or Java.

Built-in Multiplayer Game features: Server-side plug-ins make real-time games easy. Server-side room variables than can be created on the fly. Remote SharedObject support. Database support. The ability to send objects between clients in a game or chat.

Future support: ElectroServer will be around for a long time.

Community penetration: There are a lot of people on Flashkit (especially this thread) who have used this server. So you can find assistance if needed. Support is available (for free) directly from Electrotank. In addition, ElectroServer has been used in 5 books, so there is published documentation.

Other features: Extremely customizable. Zone support, which are groups of rooms. Server-side user-numbering, which is needed for games that have more than 2 players.

Conclusion: ElectroServer 3 was developed specifically for the purpose of multiplayer games in Flash. With the free source files and the huge feature set, this is a great solution for Flash game developers.

[M@dster]

Wauv, that what I call (despite of your bias ) a good reply, thanks a lot!

M@dster

[BenderB]

Hi Jobe!

I was just wondering if there's already an update of ES3 concerning the user variables.
I looked on your site but found nothing...

EDIT:
I'm stuck with a weird problem concerning the room variables.
After joining a game the player can select a character.
I have room variables that store the state of which characters are still available and who owns which character.
These room variables are created by the player who selects a character, so if a player chooses character #1 a room variable is created which is set to false, as well as a room variable which contains the players name, and the other players (which could be in the character select state at the same time) get an update via the roomVariablesUpdated event.

The strange thing is as follows:
If a player joins the game and selects, let's say character #1 the appropiate room variables (char1 & char1_used) are created:

<XmlDoc><Action>UpdateRoomVariable</Action><Parameters><MinorAction>Create</MinorAction><RoomVariable><Name>char1</Name><Data>false</Data></RoomVariable></Parameters></XmlDoc>

<XmlDoc><Action>UpdateRoomVariable</Action><Parameters><MinorAction>Create</MinorAction><RoomVariable><Name>char1_used</Name><Data>adam2</Data></RoomVariable></Parameters></XmlDoc> 

But if the player leaves the room only one of the two created room variables is deleted (char1):

<XmlDoc><Action>UpdateRoomVariable</Action><Parameters><MinorAction>Delete</MinorAction><RoomVariable><Name>char1</Name><Data>false</Data></RoomVariable></Parameters></XmlDoc> 

If the player joins the game again and selects character #1 again only the deleted variable is created (char1, I guess because all room variables are marked 'locked'):

<XmlDoc><Action>UpdateRoomVariable</Action><Parameters><MinorAction>Create</MinorAction><RoomVariable><Name>char1</Name><Data>false</Data></RoomVariable></Parameters></XmlDoc> 

If he leaves the game again the really strange thing happens.
Only the variable which should have been deleted when the player left the first time (char1_used) is deleted the newly created one (char1) is left:

<XmlDoc><Action>UpdateRoomVariable</Action><Parameters><MinorAction>Delete</MinorAction><RoomVariable><Name>char1_used</Name><Data>adam2</Data></RoomVariable></Parameters></XmlDoc> 

Non of the room variables are marked as 'persistent' but are marked as 'locked'.
I have no idea why this occurse....
Any ideas?

Thanks,
BenderB

[BenderB]

Sorry to bump this thread but I fear the email notification isn't working again.
If it was working I'm sorry.

BenderB.