Adobe Wronged Me :(

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Hey guys, I normally don't post here, but I would like to spread this problem and possibly get some feedback about the situation. So here I go.

Starting two weeks ago, I called Adobe's sales people to inquire about purchasing the Web Premium CS3 package. My main concern was about cross-platform usage. The current Adobe license allows any software to be installed on two different computers by one person. Well, my desktop is a PC, and my laptop is a Mac, so I called to find out if this was possible to do. The sales guy told me "yes, you can do that. You would just have to purchase the Mac version 'backup disc' and the license key would be valid."

At that time, I didn't have the money to order, so the guy offered to put the order on hold and they scheduled a call-back date for the following week.

The next week, I got my phone call from Adobe as expected with another sales guy awaiting my order. I confirmed with this guy AGAIN if I would be able to use my license key on both a Mac and PC with this single license I bought. He put me on hold and got back with me confirming that I could. Great. Two employees of Adobe both confirmed this was possible, but unfortunately at this time, I was just waiting on a check to clear, so I had reschedule another call back for the next day.

The third salesman called me the next day about my order. I AGAIN asked about the cross-platform issue to even more assure myself that I'm doing the right thing. AGAIN, the salesman put me on hold and came with with a "Yes." So at this time, I went on with the purchase. Adobe Web Premium CS3 PC with a Mac backup disc just to have the installer.

I received my package yesterday and went to install it. I get a red X next to the product key on my Mac. So I called customer support and they said that those three people must have lied to me and there is nothing I can do about it to be compensated for their screw up.

My biggest complaint about this is that if I'd have known about this issue, which I confirmed THREE TIMES with THREE DIFFERENT EMPLOYEES, I could have bought the license through Amazon and saved over $170 because we don't pay taxes and get free shipping on top of an Amazon $20 discount.

I understand now that the cross-platform issue is a no-no, but come on... They lied to me. I would have been OK with it if I just had the truth. I could have saved myself almost $200.

I am just extremely angry and discouraged with Adobe for lying about this and was wondering if I should even try to pursue this more? If there would be any chance for them to give me ANOTHER serial number to use on my Mac since I was lied to.

Thanks for anyone's opinions on this, and look out for cross-platform CS3 usage!

[whispers]

It cant hurt to keep calling..

worst that can happen is that you'll end up exactly same position you are in now. no worse.

DO you have dates & names of the reps who contacted you?..the call back dates?..

Call again act like a NEW customer.. ask the SAME question.. RECORD the conversation.. and then call back to confirm the LIE and re-coop any damages once played to a manager or something..

[MyFriendIsATaco]

I am planning on calling back in in 1 minute when their customer service opens up.

As for calling as acting as a new customer, that is a really good idea. I will have to make up a name though because that is the first questions they ask, name and phone number.

I do have the dates, and the names are on file. When I called yesterday, they knew exactly all of my phone calls since they take name and number for every call.

I think I'm going to call back today and just try to talk to someone higher, manager or whatever they have there. See what I can do there, if no good, I'll try the acting like a new customer thing. That is a good idea. Thanks for that suggestion.

[PAlexC]

The Adobe rep on the phone effed up.

Search John Dowdell's blog, this was brought up when Flash 8 came out. In fact, if you read the license for 8, it's written in that once you use the key on a platform, you're stuck with it. People were screaming for platform agnostic licensing, but I don't think anything ever came of it.

Double-check the license agreement that came with CS3, then call back and demand either a refund or discount, citing that no less than 3 (you did document these calls, get names, right?) sales reps told you something that contradicts the EULA.

I think the dual-license thing is very progressive for Adobe, but knowing that Mac marketshare is growing, people are switching and that designers and developers dabble in both platforms, they really should make it platform agnostic.

[PAlexC]

Anyone have JD's e-mail address? Shoot him your story, I'm sure he can dig up some info and write about how it may have happened, why the sales reps had that misconception. Some signals got crossed back there.

[whispers]

I would still record an actual Adobe rep saying these things.. nothing liek proof in the pudding man. You play THAT for a higher up manager.. your bound to get some special attention.. either re-fund or help you out someway.

My first call would be to get a recording of an Adobe official confirming this for you..(again).. be sure to say/advise them, this is also being recorded on your end for accuracy and ensure quality. Then the convo is legit.

[PAlexC]

I don't think you have to go so far as recording. Documenting the time of the call and asking for the rep's name should suffice.

Again, check the EULA. If they contradicted it, they should send you a little thank you and re-train their reps.

I'm kinda hoping they explore the idea of going platform agnostic again, the cost is keeping me away from a MBP. I'm sure Apple would be thrilled if Adobe did that.

[random25]

Never believe a salesman,
they will always tell you what you want to hear.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Well, I called and got a hold of some manager or supervisor who was really nice and completely understood my situation. But unfortunately, he doesn't have enough power to grant me a new license number or anything along those lines, but he very kindly put in a request for attention from his supervisor which he said usually takes at most 48 hours to get taken care of. Maybe I'll get to Bruce one of these days!

Like I told the manager/supervisor, I'm not trying to get any free software here. I understand fully now that what I want to do cannot be done. It's just the fact that I was mislead into believing that I can do something that I now can't do. So I'm only asking for what I thought I purchased.

And yes, I have times that I called, and fortunately, they have tight record with every phone call, so they know exactly who I talked to about the sales. There was no questioning that situation. I just need to get to someone high enough that can give me some compensation for this.

The cross-platform issue is crazy. Especially with a suite. Really I use mostly my PC for development work, and my Mac for design work. So I really use Flash and Dreamweaver on my PC, and Photoshop and Illustrator on my Mac. I don't see how that is a problem at all, but hey, licenses are licenses. I just wish I'd have known before I made the purchase, then there would be no problems.

I'll let you know how everything goes. Again, I'm in no way trying to get something for free. I went out of my way to buy my first legit versions of all of this software since I'm actually making money off of it now, and I'm so far having a rough experience. So I am in no way trying to condone someone to do this themselves! I was just rightfully wronged by Adobe representatives and feel that I deserve to have the license I was mislead into purchasing.

[whispers]

Your a nice guy. IMHO, they charge a heavy price, and market it in my face..etc.. all for me to buy the product..which is NOT cheap.

If they tell me one thing, to get me to buy the product, thats what I expect. no substitutions. and if it takes away from MY time to have to rectify an error on their part, such as tracking down a support rep, a manager..etc.. then I also expect compensation for that.

I mean we're paying 'more' for the software then just BARE minimums to produce.. they turn a profit.. I expect them to deliver.

you DO deserve your license. period

[MyFriendIsATaco]

That's exactly how I feel about the situation. That you for agreeing. I'm hoping if I just get high enough in status, someone is just going to say, "Look we made a mistake, here is what you want" and go into the computer, type in another serial number into their database and call it a day. That's all that it would require on their end to make me more than thrilled. It's not like they have to send me new media or anything. Just read me a 24 digit number. :P

I really hope that will be the outcome. I can only cross my fingers. I have 30 days to get everything sorted out before my 30 day trial of the Mac software expires, and I'm going to fight until then! Haha!

Thanks for the support with this by the way.

[gecko2]

I went out of my way to buy my first legit versions of all of this software since I'm actually making money off of it now, and I'm so far having a rough experience.

Maybe Adobe knew along you weren't legit and lied on purpose.

I'm actually thinking of getting a Mac soon so this has caught my attention.

[whispers]

See.. (to me) if they lie to get you to buy.. they will just deny.


Which is why I stressed a recording... proof is in the pudding.

You can then play it back to a 'higher-up' instead of being another 'lying' customer who falsely accused their loyal and adept customer service employees..

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Maybe Adobe knew along you weren't legit and lied on purpose.

Haha, that actually wasn't an issue. I wasn't using an illegal version. It just wasn't mine. It was bought for me from a previous company, so it was in their company's name which would make me ineligible for an upgrade.

The customer support also doesn't think that I'm lying about the situation. Surprisingly, I found out that all phone calls are kept in text versions for them, so they must have some sort of speech-to-text software on the phone calls, so there is no question that they made a mistake, I just need to get to the right person to get compensated for that mistake they made.

[whispers]

ask for copies of the conversation be emailed to you..

[hanratty21]

I am soooo glad I read this thread. To be honest, I assumed the cross platform issue was not a problem when it came to the 'allowed to install on two machines' policy of Adobe. Given the amount of marketing done by Apple to 'switch' I honestly thought that Adobe was already on board with this...I guess not. Sad.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

Yeah, I thought that too. Hence why I called and talked to someone personally as opposed to reading speculation on the internet. Hence why I also asked THREE different people about it to get a perfectly conclusive answer. I guess that just doesn't matter anymore. I also found out that Adobe sales reps make commission. Commission should be illegal. It promotes bad sales practices! :P

[MyFriendIsATaco]

By the way, just incase anyone was wondering about the specifics in the EULA, I managed to dig it up, and from what I understand, it does not mention a darn thing about cross-platform licensing. I have posted the license up at http://www.ydekproductions.com/license.html if anyone wants to take a look.

Specifically, I want to point your attention to section 2.5. It mentions that it's allowed to be installed on two "Computers", and the define a "Computer" as basically any electronic device.

With this on guard, I think I have a really viable complaint now. Along with probably many other Adobe users.

Hehe

[PAlexC]

Hmm...

2.4 Portable or Home Computer Use. Subject to the important restrictions set forth in Section 2.5 below, the primary user of the Computer on which the Software is installed (“Primary User”) may install a second copy of the Software for his or her exclusive use on either a portable Computer or a Computer located at his or her home, provided that the Software on the portable or home Computer is not used at the same time as the Software on the primary Computer. You may be required to contact Adobe in order to make a second copy.

Maybe you can, you just need to contact them? Limitation of the activation system maybe?

4.3 No Unbundling. The Software may include various applications, utilities and components, may support multiple platforms and languages and may be provided to you on multiple media or in multiple copies. Nonetheless, the Software is designed and provided to you as a single product to be used as a single product on Computers as permitted by Sections 2 and 14. You are not required to use all component parts of the Software, but you may not unbundle the component parts of the Software for use on different Computers. You may not unbundle or repackage the Software for distribution, transfer or resale. See Section 14 for specific exceptions to this Section.4.3.

"May" is the key term there, it's not definitive. Since Flash is compiled for both, maybe they altered the license but didn't change the rules in the activation scheme?

14.7.4 You may convert and install the font software into another format for use in other environments, subject to the following conditions: A computer on which the converted font software is used or installed will be considered as one of your Permitted Number of Computers. Use of the font software you have converted will be pursuant to all the terms and conditions of this agreement. Such converted font software may be used only for your own customary internal business or personal use and may not be distributed or transferred for any purpose, except in accordance with Section 4.4 of this agreement.

Closest thing I can find to a direct comment on it.

There's nothing in there that explicitly says you can't, which, IIRC is a change from the old EULA. (Or maybe MX2004's, can't remember.)

This really could be a change to the EULA that wasn't implemented in the activation scheme.

[MyFriendIsATaco]

From what I'm getting, clause 4.3 is referring to having the 6 applications, and installing just one on 6 different computers. Unbundling the suite.

And 14.7.4 is regarding their fonts. Section 14.7 specifies that.

I think I got a good case. Called Adobe support back. (I have the 800 number memorized now). I got this information added to my case. Hopefully I'll hear from the "Level 3" guy tomorrow.