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I'm trying to work out what's everyones' issue with CSS?? I have no major problems implementing valid CSS that does exactly what I need it to do, and with only the addition of a few ie6 "hacks" for legacy.
Though in a way I'm guess I'm glad some have issues with it, I've been getting plenty of interface dev work recently!
(Though I would prefer designing rather than coding, but beggers can't be choosers when working remotely on painfully slow Internet...)
Michezo Youth Initiative - donate | Into Kenya | Naked Chronicles | Mark Bingham - my friend, America's hero
To help new members fit into Flashkit, three rules they forgot to tell you on signup: Rule #1: Learn Group Think, and behave accordingly | Rule #2: Do as certain Mods say, not as they do. | Rule #3: If you're from outside the US, don't at any time criticise, allude or hyperlink to criticism of the US or any of their laws, policies or practices. | Enjoy your time at Flashkit!
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Information Architect
You're lucky, I still have to make the stuff work in IE 5.5 
Fredi
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He has risen!
i have no problem with CSS either. yeah the cross-browser thing stinks, but we wouldn't have jobs if everyone can do it...at least thats how i rationalize it in my head.
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 Originally Posted by Subway
You're lucky, I still have to make the stuff work in IE 5.5
Fredi
Now THAT would suck!
Michezo Youth Initiative - donate | Into Kenya | Naked Chronicles | Mark Bingham - my friend, America's hero
To help new members fit into Flashkit, three rules they forgot to tell you on signup: Rule #1: Learn Group Think, and behave accordingly | Rule #2: Do as certain Mods say, not as they do. | Rule #3: If you're from outside the US, don't at any time criticise, allude or hyperlink to criticism of the US or any of their laws, policies or practices. | Enjoy your time at Flashkit!
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Total Universe Mod
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Yeah, but what's new with the web? We've been working out how to do things across multiple browsers and operating systems for well over 10 years now, and compared to how it used to be CSS is currently fantastic as far as my use experience of it goes.
And as lefteyewilly said, if it was too damn simple then every joker would be a "CSS expert". Just like 10 years ago, when every man and his dog was an "HTML expert". No thanks.
Michezo Youth Initiative - donate | Into Kenya | Naked Chronicles | Mark Bingham - my friend, America's hero
To help new members fit into Flashkit, three rules they forgot to tell you on signup: Rule #1: Learn Group Think, and behave accordingly | Rule #2: Do as certain Mods say, not as they do. | Rule #3: If you're from outside the US, don't at any time criticise, allude or hyperlink to criticism of the US or any of their laws, policies or practices. | Enjoy your time at Flashkit!
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He has risen!
Originally Posted by TheOriginalFlashDavo
CSS is currently fantastic as far as my use experience of it goes.
here here! i couldn't imagine adding font properties to every single last line of code especially sitewide changes
Honestly, i'm a poor css coder, but i get through to what i need to do and it looks and functions exactly how i'd like it; after a few tweaks. Saves coding time by at least 90% for medium sized sites and allows for client changes by a large margin before launch.
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Total Universe Mod
I've had to become an seo guy over the last year or so since pagerank became the most important thing in our owners life. If that didn't matter my html would consist of nothing more than a .swf embed. So I agree that CSS is that perfect bridge for sending google a good message and showing the site you want. I'm just saying the way its been implemented for the masses goes against some fundamental principles of technology.
Making the tools easy to use is never going to get us replaced, there's always going to be a need for a specialist, we'll just get to spend the entire time being creative instead of doing everything twice.
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I see far fewer issues with CSS/XHTML than Flash - and that's coming from a former Flash "expert" (hey, I was regarded as that during Flash 4/5 days funny enough!). 
Michezo Youth Initiative - donate | Into Kenya | Naked Chronicles | Mark Bingham - my friend, America's hero
To help new members fit into Flashkit, three rules they forgot to tell you on signup: Rule #1: Learn Group Think, and behave accordingly | Rule #2: Do as certain Mods say, not as they do. | Rule #3: If you're from outside the US, don't at any time criticise, allude or hyperlink to criticism of the US or any of their laws, policies or practices. | Enjoy your time at Flashkit!
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Total Universe Mod
I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Flash movies appear in playback the exact same way they look in the authoring tool. Not a single element's size and location depends on that of another. Its the exact same movie in every browser. What are these "issues"?
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Well, if you start getting away from the priority being the "exact same" display in every browser (with the plugin), and that the primary purpose of the Internet is information, then you might get an inkling of the areas I'm referring to.
Michezo Youth Initiative - donate | Into Kenya | Naked Chronicles | Mark Bingham - my friend, America's hero
To help new members fit into Flashkit, three rules they forgot to tell you on signup: Rule #1: Learn Group Think, and behave accordingly | Rule #2: Do as certain Mods say, not as they do. | Rule #3: If you're from outside the US, don't at any time criticise, allude or hyperlink to criticism of the US or any of their laws, policies or practices. | Enjoy your time at Flashkit!
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Flashkit historian
Are saying flash can't be read by seo's? Or are you saying that you can't load/place information in flash?
flash penetration
SEO Friendly
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I'm not really interested in getting into a "Mac v PC" type debate. My point is simply that in the majority of cases where conveyance of information is the primary focus I find CSS/XHTML a better way to build an interface solution, that's all.
But Flash has its uses, just like any other application and/or language.
Michezo Youth Initiative - donate | Into Kenya | Naked Chronicles | Mark Bingham - my friend, America's hero
To help new members fit into Flashkit, three rules they forgot to tell you on signup: Rule #1: Learn Group Think, and behave accordingly | Rule #2: Do as certain Mods say, not as they do. | Rule #3: If you're from outside the US, don't at any time criticise, allude or hyperlink to criticism of the US or any of their laws, policies or practices. | Enjoy your time at Flashkit!
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Total Universe Mod
I've taken flash seo about as far as you can go and the screen reading just isn't there yet. Google actually takes visual presentation into consideration. You can see the screen shot they have on file and rarely matches the flash movie. At any rate, flash just shouldn't be prominent on sites that need to rank well. Flash should only be thought of as shrink wrap for good xhtml anyway.
All I'm saying to Davo is as far as achieving ones vision, you can't really compare CSS to Flash. I'm kinda good at both. 
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I wasn't comparing, just conveying an opinion of which tool I find better for a particular type of objective.
That's all.
Michezo Youth Initiative - donate | Into Kenya | Naked Chronicles | Mark Bingham - my friend, America's hero
To help new members fit into Flashkit, three rules they forgot to tell you on signup: Rule #1: Learn Group Think, and behave accordingly | Rule #2: Do as certain Mods say, not as they do. | Rule #3: If you're from outside the US, don't at any time criticise, allude or hyperlink to criticism of the US or any of their laws, policies or practices. | Enjoy your time at Flashkit!
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Total Universe Mod
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Total Universe Mod
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FK'n Elitist Super Mod
Originally Posted by jAQUAN
Yeah, let us know how good or bad it really is...
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Total Universe Mod
I didn't get to really tear into it but I gave it a quick test run. It definitely warrants closer inspection. I need to create a more complex .psd to see where it breaks down.
I didn't inspect the code other than a quick scan with firebug. From what I did see, it relies heavily on absolute positioning. There were also a number of div's with inline styling.
It does beg the question though. How bad is absolute/relative positioning vs. floating and clearing?
Personally I try to write pages that are easy on edits. They require a bit more work upfront sometimes but I'm always happy to see that I didn't paint myself into a corner. z-indexing just seemed too much like iframing to me so I've avoided it. But there are times when I think to myself, "Sh*t, I could just give this position:absolute, give it a top and a left and be done with it."
After looking at the code generated by sitegrinder, I asked myself why I don't do it more often. I didn't have an answer. So now I'm wondering, what are the inherent bad sides of static positions and sizes?
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