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Thread: WTF Friday

  1. #1
    Senior Member WannaBe_80z's Avatar
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    WTF Friday

    This is one of the more disturbing stories I have read recently.

    Put your dead baby in the fridge': What nurse told mother who suffered miscarriage

    She had just endured the trauma of a miscarriage.

    But when Sophie Hill phoned her hospital with her dead child next to her, she was simply told to put it in the fridge for two days until her scheduled appointment.

    Confused and in shock, Miss Hill followed the nurse's instructions and stored the foetus in a Tupperware box in her fridge so it could be kept cool for testing.

    Last night, as hospital bosses investigated, Miss Hill said she had been 'betrayed by the NHS' and her father called for the nurse who gave the advice to be suspended.

    Miss Hill, 21, was overjoyed when she become pregnant for a second time with boyfriend Jamie George, 29, and the pair had been planning for the arrival of what they hoped would be a second daughter.

    The 12-week scan showed the baby was growing well but subsequent tests revealed problems.

    She was told in February, when she was four months pregnant, that the baby had died.

    Weeks later, she miscarried.

    Miss Hill, from Crawley, West Sussex, said: 'I was woken up at three in the morning with horrific pains in my stomach.

    'I was in agony and went to the toilet and that's when it happened. I thought I should keep it and next morning I spoke to the hospital to find out what I should do.'

    She phoned the early pregnancy unit at East Surrey Hospital in Redhill and spoke to a nurse.

    'I said to the woman what had happened and asked what I should do,' she said.

    'I don't think she really understood what I was saying or believed me. She replied that I was not due back in for my next appointment for another two days so I would have to wait until then because they were unable to see me.

    'She said I had to keep the child cold for testing reasons and I should keep it in the fridge until my appointment.

    'At no point did she say I should go to hospital. I was really upset, my head was a mess and I did what she said. When you call up a pregnancy unit at a hospital you expect them to give you good advice so I took it as gospel.

    'I put it in a Tupperware box and sealed it up and wrapped it in a plastic bag because I could see the arms and legs and some of the head and put it in the fridge towards the back.

    'It was horrible. Every time I went to the fridge I had to look at it.'

    Miss Hill took the child to her appointment two days later.

    Later on, her health visitor said the nurse's guidance was entirely wrong and she should have sought immediate medical attention.

    She added that in 25 years of midwifery she had never seen anything like it.

    Miss Hill, whose daughter Marnie-Faye is seven months old, said: 'I'm furious at how I've been treated and I can't understand why on earth the nurse told me what she did.

    'I'm haunted by what happened to me and shudder every time I look at my little girl because it reminds me.

    'I want her to have a sister one day but I will wait because I'm so traumatised and let down by the hospital.'

    Miss Hill's father Paul, 45, a cargo handler with British Airways, last night attacked the hospital for their 'neglect' of his daughter.

    He said: 'I'm disgusted with the way they treated her and that nurse should at least be suspended.

    'She had no support, no counselling and has had no apology.'

    It is understood the nurse who advised Miss Hill is on holiday and has not been disciplined.

    A Surrey and Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust spokesman, said: 'We acknowledge and
    appreciate that Sophie Hill has been through a very difficult time and would
    like to express our sympathy for her loss.

    'Our Early Pregnancy Unit provides care to women during the early stages of their pregnancies and we strive to offer responsive, supportive and sensitive care to a high standard.

    All our nurses are specifically trained to offer advice and support to women at
    varying stages of pregnancy.

    'Our early Pregnancy Unit advice is that in exceptional circumstances in
    order to find out why a woman has miscarried the foetus will need to be
    examined at the hospital. The woman will be advised to come to the hospital
    immediately. If she is unable to come to the hospital, she will need to keep
    the foetus preserved for it to be suitable for examination.

    'We are unable to discuss the individual circumstances of this case, but
    would welcome Sophie contacting the hospital to arrange a meeting with her
    and offer our support.'

    The spokesman added the Trust hadn't received a formal complaint from Miss Hill and if they received one they would have a full internal investigation.
    "Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."- T. McKenna

  2. #2
    dIgital pHoto dude! TheEnigma's Avatar
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    Holy crap!
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  3. #3
    Spartan Mop Warrior Loyal Rogue's Avatar
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    WTF indeed.



    "Yeah, just help yourself to a beer and some dip, it's in the fridge."
    "Aaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhh!!!!"
    Last edited by Loyal Rogue; 05-01-2009 at 03:14 PM.

  4. #4
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    A shining example of national healthcare quality. You should see the cancer mortality rates compared to the rest of the world, under NHS.

    With a filibuster proof majority for Democrats, we might get to enjoy this as well in the US. Change and hope!
    Last edited by FlashLackey; 05-01-2009 at 06:22 PM.
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  5. #5
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    With a filibuster proof majority for Democrats, we might get to enjoy this as well in the US. Change and hope!
    The republicans had eight years to do something better and didn't.

    Seriously. Pulling parties into this when they had almost a decade to do something but didn't; does not instill faith into anybody.

    Filibuster is for chumps. It's a stall tactic only to get a concession like a child throwing a tantrum in a store.

    Want to retort, start with the one fact; our healthcare is almost dead last in the list of first world countries. And has been on the decline for our entire generation. A majority of our generation was republican ran - Nixon (1.5 terms), Reagan (2 terms), Bush Sr. (2 terms), Bush (2 terms).

    Blame Carter (1 term), Clinton (2 terms) and Obama (100+ days) all you want. Link to whatever you wish.

    The proof is that the decline has been steady and constant.

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  6. #6
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    The republicans had eight years to do something better and didn't.
    Whatever Republicans did in the past has no bearing on whether or not what different people want to do in the future will be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    Seriously. Pulling parties into this when they had almost a decade to do something but didn't; does not instill faith into anybody.
    I'm not trying to instill faith about anything into anyone. It doesn't take any faith to observe the fact that, currently, if I get the same type of cancer, at the same time as someone in Europe, I have a significantly greater chance of being alive in 5 years than they do. I do not want the healthcare of my children to be deteriorated to a lower standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    Filibuster is for chumps. It's a stall tactic only to get a concession like a child throwing a tantrum in a store.
    It's not like that at all. It's an important check to prevent one party from forcing an agenda without regard to the population that the rest of the government represents.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    Want to retort, start with the one fact; our healthcare is almost dead last in the list of first world countries. And has been on the decline for our entire generation. A majority of our generation was republican ran - Nixon (1.5 terms), Reagan (2 terms), Bush Sr. (2 terms), Bush (2 terms).
    This simply isn't true. As shown above, the US continues to be at the top in terms of quality of care. It's also at the top in terms of new innovations being produced.

    It's not perfect. Clearly, the rate of increase in cost is not justified and something should be done about that. However, the mountain of available evidence suggests that the solution Obama proposes will lead to lower quality of care with no improvement to cost.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

  7. #7
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    What was done in the past does affect the future. Only a person that wishes to remain delusional and thinks that what was set before doesn't count. If that's the case, you simply have 4 years to deal with somebody you will never like and it'll be set aside when you get somebody you do like.

    The US is not in the top for general healthcare.

    A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[8] However, the U.S. is a leader in medical innovation, with three times higher per-capita spending than Europe.[9] The U.S. also has higher survival rates than most other countries for certain conditions, such as some less common cancers, but has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries.[10]
    Quoted from your oft-quoted Wiki - right here. I'm not entering into some link war - link to Rasmussen or Michelle Malkin. They're wrong too.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    A shining example of national healthcare quality. You should see the cancer mortality rates compared to the rest of the world, under NHS.

    With a filibuster proof majority for Democrats, we might get to enjoy this as well in the US. Change and hope!
    UK has only been spending 7% of their GDP until last year for Healthcare while Europe in general spent around 10% and the US has been spending 13% so far. That explains at least in part why Britain finishes poorly. That is nearly double.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7510121.stm

    In contrast the life expectancy in the UK as well as many other European country is higher than the US.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

    The numbers speak for themselves .
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  9. #9
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    What was done in the past does affect the future. Only a person that wishes to remain delusional and thinks that what was set before doesn't count. If that's the case, you simply have 4 years to deal with somebody you will never like and it'll be set aside when you get somebody you do like.
    This isn't what I wrote at all. Of course things that happen in the past affect the future. I'm saying that what has happened in the past does not affect whether or not a new proposal has merit or not. The quality of past performance doesn't mean that we should just agree with anything else, without scrutiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    The US is not in the top for general healthcare.

    Quoted from your oft-quoted Wiki - right here. I'm not entering into some link war - link to Rasmussen or Michelle Malkin. They're wrong too.
    The Commonwealth Fund is a national health care reform lobbyist. Of course they are going to "rank" the US low. If they are anything like the WHO, their study includes things like "fairness ratings" that completely skew the results based on subjective judgements. I couldn't even see their report because you have to pay to look at it.

    I think that wikipedia is a great source to quickly get a few relevant articles and summaries. But, you have to check the sources.

    The claim in your quote that the US is only ahead for some obscure types of cancers is in contrast to all other data. As cancerinform's link states, the US leads the world in survival rates for both breast cancer and prostate cancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by cancerinform View Post
    UK has only been spending 7% of their GDP until last year for Healthcare while Europe in general spent around 10% and the US has been spending 13% so far. That explains at least in part why Britain finishes poorly. That is nearly double.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7510121.stm
    It explains in part why the UK system is so much worse than that in the US. It doesn't allow the people getting the care to decide how much they are willing to spend on keeping themselves healthy. It means that bureaucrats draw lines for people on health coverage amongst competing budgets for God-knows-what.

    As I've said, I agree that the US system is imperfect and in need of reform to curb costs. However, the reason the costs are high is because government has architected it so that most people get their insurance via their employer. As a result, individuals don't scrutinize the cost of their plan since "someone else is paying for it" and insurance companies don't have to care about the individual consumers. Only the big company contracts matter to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by cancerinform View Post
    In contrast the life expectancy in the UK as well as many other European country is higher than the US.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

    The numbers speak for themselves .
    No they really don't. Life expectancy is not a good measure of health care because there are so many non-health-care-related factors at play regarding how long someone lives. Crime rates, hazardous occupations like military service, eating habits, etc. all play a role in how long populations tend to live.

    If you've sorted the data in the dynamic table, you find that without accounting for the incidence of fatal injuries, the United States ties for 14th of the 16 nations listed. But once fatal injuries are taken into account, U.S. "natural" life expectancy from birth ranks first among the richest nations of the world.
    http://politicalcalculations.blogspo...in-united.html
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  10. #10
    Senior Member cancerinform's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    No they really don't. Life expectancy is not a good measure of health care because there are so many non-health-care-related factors at play regarding how long someone lives. Crime rates, hazardous occupations like military service, eating habits, etc. all play a role in how long populations tend to live.
    http://politicalcalculations.blogspo...in-united.html
    That is exactly what I wanted to say. Life in the US is unhealthy. Changes in Healthcare alone won't do anything. Healthcare also includes changes in other parts of the daily life. That is what those numbers say.
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  11. #11
    Flashkit historian Frets's Avatar
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    This is exactly what you typed FL

    Whatever Republicans did in the past has no bearing on whether or not what different people want to do in the future will be good

    It has everything to do with what people want to do in the future. Hopefully they will see it as a roadmap to hell and take another course. Unfortunately we are stuck in the everpresent and have to deal with the problems of today today.

  12. #12
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    That's already been spun into something else. Just let it go.

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  13. #13
    An FKer
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    They told my aunt that as well when she miscarried and she did it too. But I guess you have no choice?

  14. #14
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cancerinform View Post
    That is exactly what I wanted to say. Life in the US is unhealthy. Changes in Healthcare alone won't do anything. Healthcare also includes changes in other parts of the daily life. That is what those numbers say.
    No they don't. The numbers say that if you remove fatal injuries from the equation, the US ranks as the healthiest of all wealthy nations in the world.

    That means that people are driving recklessly, being murdered, fighting in wars, etc. at a higher rate. That is not a healthcare issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frets View Post
    It has everything to do with what people want to do in the future. Hopefully they will see it as a roadmap to hell and take another course. Unfortunately we are stuck in the everpresent and have to deal with the problems of today today.
    I didn't write anything about whether or not people want to do something different.

    But, your apparent "anything but what we did is ok by me" position does explain why some people are buying into the current round of bs.

    Ever heard of "out of the frying pan and into the fire"?

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    That's already been spun into something else. Just let it go.
    If Obama's plan included a nuclear attack on the rest of the world, would you think it was a good plan because it's different than what Republicans did?
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  15. #15
    Spartan Mop Warrior Loyal Rogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    No they don't. The numbers say that if you remove fatal injuries from the equation, the US ranks as the healthiest of all wealthy nations in the world.
    You mean the numbers from the rightwing political blog you linked to?
    I guess that means we can expect you to give equal weight to using Michael Moore as an authority on healthcare now too, right?

  16. #16
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashLackey View Post
    If Obama's plan included a nuclear attack on the rest of the world, would you think it was a good plan because it's different than what Republicans did?
    If the republican plan(s) don't exactly get us from being pretty damn low, if not last, on the list of first world countries; I'm willing to try something else.

    And since it seems as if you have a very short memory; I'll reiterate something I've said before.

    Neither Obama's or the prior republican offerings solve the healthcare situation in the US. Now, with that said, that's all I feel as if I need to state.

    The prior and present plan(s) don't solve a thing. The problem will only continue to expand. 8 years, not one good plan. People haven't even given this president 8 months.

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  17. #17
    supervillain gerbick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue View Post
    You mean the numbers from the rightwing political blog you linked to?
    I guess that means we can expect you to give equal weight to using Michael Moore as an authority on healthcare now too, right?
    I think you meant Michelle Malkin. Wrong M&M combo.

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  18. #18
    He has risen! lefteyewilly's Avatar
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    why is everyone around here so f'ing serious all the time?

    we should rename the 'coffee lounge' 'depression and politics'.

  19. #19
    Chaos silverx2's Avatar
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    Nanerpus causes cancer.
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  20. #20
    Hood Rich FlashLackey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyal Rogue View Post
    You mean the numbers from the rightwing political blog you linked to?
    I guess that means we can expect you to give equal weight to using Michael Moore as an authority on healthcare now too, right?
    Two University of Iowa researchers, Robert L. Ohsfeldt and John E. Schneider, reviewed the data for the nations of the OECD to statistically account for the incidence of fatal injuries for the member countries.
    Do you find something objectionable about the OECD source or is this another "but there are conservative banners on the page" argument?

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
    If the republican plan(s) don't exactly get us from being pretty damn low, if not last, on the list of first world countries; I'm willing to try something else.
    Last on the list in what category? Healthcare?

    #1 The evidence suggests that we are #1 on the list in quality of healthcare. Our problem is that it costs more than it should. But, Obama's proposed solution has not been shown to reduce those costs without also reducing the quality of care.

    #2 Assuming that you are referring to healthcare here, the current system is not a product of a "Republican plan." I agree that Bush didn't help any with his massive drug bill. But, the fundamental roots of the current system go way back.

    Quote Originally Posted by lefteyewilly View Post
    why is everyone around here so f'ing serious all the time?

    we should rename the 'coffee lounge' 'depression and politics'.
    I apologize for the seriousness. It may not come across well on-line, but I'm not as "serious" as it probably seems. I respect that others have their own views and reasons. I just enjoy putting everything on the table on subjects like this. It's the best way to really learn about an issue since both sides tend to be motivated to find the best supporting arguments and evidence available and it's not just like-minded people patting each other on the back all day (like watching MSNBC News or reading the NY Times).

    Doesn't it help that the serious talk is relatively contained to a few threads? Seems like there are a lot of other non-serious topics...?
    Last edited by FlashLackey; 05-04-2009 at 05:22 AM.
    "We don't estimate speeches." - CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

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