The NHS & the United States of America

[hanratty21]

I paid less than that for a PPO. If I had a condition that required hospital stay, I could choose a place that offers those things.

With what kind of deductible? If you tell me none, then you have my vote for the new Health Care Czar. You've solved the problem.

[david petley]

Hello. The uninsured is a small percentage of people (15% at most) and many of them are young people who choose not to pay for coverage (about half of the 15% can afford it or qualify for public coverage already). Because many of them are young and healthy, they don't need to see the inside of a hospital anyway.

...and if you look at the figures by race
uninsured black people - 18.5 - 19%
uninsured hispanics - 32 - 35%

(http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthi...ric/index.html)

...so somebody is getting the rough end of the pineapple.

david

<edit> and if you live in Florida, or New Mexico one in 5 is not insured.

[mave_the_rave]

I had medical insurance with Cigna paid for by my company.
I had dental treatment and also an Arthroscopy on my knee.

Some of the dental treatment had a limit on the claim.

Then I was made redundant and my free insurance ceased...

However insurance or not, there are limits when certain medical treatment
and medication is required.

What really P's me off is that certain drugs, ie for cancer treatment
are considered too expensive to give out on the NHS.

Considering much of the funding for research is donated by the public
who relentlessly raise money by running marathons and the like.

In my cynical mind, it would seem illogical to ever find an absolute cure for such disease as there would be no need for anymore funding.

Cancer Research is one of the most popular 'charities' people raise money for.
Many of these people have had friends or relatives who have been affected
by this disease.

None of these people are likely to benefit if long term medical treatment is
rerquired.

I believe that the drug companies are artificially inflating the price of such drugs.

They quote they have made staggering progress and cured cancers in animals.
This encourages people to send more money.

These animals are healthy when they are given cancer so they respond to drugs.

Most people who develop cancers are in poor health and they do not respond in the same way to drugs..

However drugs that have been found to help some patients continue to be unavailable to the majority of us.



"We are almost there. Keep sending you money."

[Loyal Rogue]

I think I'm missing something here, because $160 a month doesn't sound that unreasonable, or was the list I got a list of all the packages and I'm suppose to add them all up rather than just take the best deal?

I took a look at the Cigna quotes for myself if I was single and I'm guessing that $160 is the monthly quote for the lowest Cigna plan with a deductible of $5000 for you.
That means if you had an emergency and had to go to the hospital the first $5000 of the bill would come out of your pocket. After that your insurance would pay either 80% or 60% of the rest of the bill depending on if you were at a Cigna network hospital or not.

When I was 22 I had a motorcycle accident.
Snapped my femur in half, got pretty banged up overall and woke-up with my foot next to my face.
I didn't have insurance so the ambulance drove over 45mins past 6 hospitals that wouldn't accept me until we got to a county hospital that had to take me because they receive tax funding.

Luckily it wasn't anything life-threatening or else I could have died during the ride. (I know in your system that sounds impossible, but over here we've had horror stories in the news of people who have died because they were turned away from the "wrong" hospital for lack of insurance or because their insurance company refused to pay unless they went to a different hospital in their network.)

Anyway, it took a couple of days in the hospital to have surgery to put a metal rod and some screws in my thighbone, then 2 days of physical therapy which I barely remember because I kept passing out from the pain of the nerve damage in my groin, then was sent home with a $26,000 bill.

If I had the Cigna insurance plan you were looking at, I would have gone home with a $9,200 bill for an in-network hospital or a $13,400 bill for an out-of-network hospital instead... oh yeah, plus the cost of the ambulance ride which was $480.
That is what $160/mo buys you.
Doesn't sound too bad until you actually need to use it.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

I took a look at the Cigna quotes for myself if I was single and I'm guessing that $160 is the monthly quote for the lowest Cigna plan with a deductible of $5000 for you.

Probably not. asheep is young and vibrant. you are old and dying. Hence the difference in quotes.



being 35 i just got quoted 142 a month, 500 deductible with a max 2500 out of pocket. co pays 20 bucks.

[Loyal Rogue]

Ouch.
Why I oughta... *shakes fist*

I didn't see a $500 deductible plan. The lowest I saw was the Open Access 1000 which has a $1000 deductible.
I did make one mistake earlier though. I didn't see the max out of pocket.
That means my earlier figures would drop to a $5,000 bill for in-network and a $10,000 bill for out-of-network hospitals.

[creativeinsomnia]

I just had my 3rd child a few weeks ago and I have really good insurance through my employer and I still have to pay out my ass. I dont care what anybody says, our healthcare system sucks.

Every year it seems like my rates go up, and my coverage drops. Of course, when having a wife and 3 kids, you have to bite the bullet and make sure you can get the best available insurance. It's just sickening to find out every year how much you actually spend on healthcare.

[Loyal Rogue]

Asheep can confirm, but I believe if you were in the UK and your wife worked, she would've had paid time off for pre-natal treatments, free prescriptions, free dental, no bill for the hospital stay or delivery, and then 6mos paid maternity leave, and an additional 3mos paid plus 3mos unpaid maternity if she chose to take it.

I think if I ever decide to have a kid the wife will be taking a very "extended vacation".

[asheep_uk]

Yeah.

It obviously is paid for somewhere along the line. It comes out of something we have called "National Insurance", or NI - essentially a tax.

If you earn £30,000 ($50,000) a year, you'll pay £220 ($360) a month to NI.

Your employer also contributes, paying directing to the government – about £250 a month ($410). You never see that money, it doesn't appear on your payslip, it's just something employers have to do. (In return, if you're sick, the employer gets money back from the government to help with your sick pay.)

NI helps to pay for your pension, but I suspect the majority of it goes to the NHS.

However, if I go to the hospital every single day and have every tooth replaced, every bone reinforced with steel and my wife has 10 babies, I still only pay £220 a month. And nobody checks that you do, soon as you're ready to leave the hospital, you just walk out. You don't even have to give your address. (But they like to take it, so they can update your patient records.)

Here's when it really works: say I'm 18 years old and I earn £4.77 (the minimum wage for under-22s) and I work 20 hours a week, because I'm on an apprenticeship, or I'm too ill to work anymore than that, my NI is £0.00, but I can still have as many babies or break as many limbs as I want.

The Prime Minister probably pays about £450 a month in NI. If you earn £1,000,000 a year, you pay £1,146 a month.

[asheep_uk]

Oh don't forget the dad gets paid time off too!

[gerbick]

The Prime Minister probably pays about £450 a month in NI. If you earn £1,000,000 a year, you pay £1,146 a month.

And that's going to be the problem in the US. "It's unfair that the rich pay for everybody's healthcare...", thus the whole "socialism" slant that was made popular by a person who obtained medicine under assumed names in different countries... like Haiti.

[asheep_uk]

If I had the Cigna insurance plan you were looking at, I would have gone home with a $9,200 bill for an in-network hospital or a $13,400 bill for an out-of-network hospital instead... oh yeah, plus the cost of the ambulance ride which was $480.
That is what $160/mo buys you.

My $360 a month pays for that, but I don't have to drive around south London trying to find a hospital and I don't get landed with a $15,000 bill. And if I loose my job tomorrow, I don't actually have to pay at all.

I normally see the US as being ahead in the game, but that's pretty shocking.

[asheep_uk]

And that's going to be the problem in the US. "It's unfair that the rich pay for everybody's healthcare...", thus the whole "socialism" slant that was made popular by a person who obtained medicine under assumed names in different countries... like Haiti.

But that's how the rest of your taxes work? The rich pay for the schools, the fire engines, the policemen, your postal service (?), your wars – everything?

[gerbick]

But that's how the rest of your taxes work? The rich pay for the schools, the fire engines, the policemen, your postal service (?), your wars – everything?

You'd think that common sense would prevail, but it does not. They - I am a few levels removed from ever considering myself "rich" - feel as if they are carrying the burden of a bigger government due to the new administration without looking at the trend that the government was already getting bigger in the last decade.

Thus, the rich feel as if they are funding something they fundamentally do not believe in, nor wish to support.

Same for healthcare. They feel as if things are fine. They're covered. So everything with everybody is ok. Only a small percentage of people are uncovered according to misinformed people.

[TallGuyLittleCar]

They - I am a few levels removed from ever considering myself "rich" - feel as if they are carrying the burden of a bigger government due to the new administration without looking at the trend that the government was already getting bigger in the last decade.

They have been complaining about their burden for decades. I really remember it ramping up during the clinton admin, with the top 10% paying 80% of the taxees (or some such)

[Loyal Rogue]

I was just looking up tax rates for comparison and I'm a little surprised.

For childless single taxpayer making a decent middle class wage of $50,000/yr the basic income tax rate in the US is 25%.
In the UK it's 14.9%. Is that right? I thought you guys paid much more taxes than we do?
For Social Security we pay 6% and for NI you pay 11%.
So our total on the above is 31% and your total is 26%?

I'm sure there's a bunch of small variables like sales tax (VAT), state income tax, fuel taxes, tobacco taxes, etc., but for the majority of the tax burden it looks like you guys are paying less and can still afford better social programs.
So what am I missing?

[TallGuyLittleCar]

your postal service (?),

I don't think the postal service receives any public funding.

[gerbick]

They have been complaining about their burden for decades. I really remember it ramping up during the clinton admin, with the top 10% paying 80% of the taxees (or some such)

Quite funny how you went to yet another democratic president. Dare I say... I see a trend?

Time to be honest. You don't like Obama in office, do you?

[TallGuyLittleCar]

Quite funny how you went to yet another democratic president. Dare I say... I see a trend?

they complain more when a democrat is in office. And I don't really remember them complaining when Sr. Bush was in office, but then agian I wasn't even driving yet. They complained through Dubya's years as well, but less vocally for obvious reasons.

Time to be honest. You don't like Obama in office, do you?

I like him more than Nancy Pelosi, but less than Ron Paul.

I think he is doing a better job than McCain would have done, and try to be careful to keep in mind that he has to work with congress just as all previous presidents have done. Do i think he is a socialist, no. Do i think the joker socialist posters are funny.. a little.

[asheep_uk]

I was just looking up tax rates for comparison and I'm a little surprised.

For childless single taxpayer making a decent middle class wage of $50,000/yr the basic income tax rate in the US is 25%.
In the UK it's 14.9%. Is that right? I thought you guys paid much more taxes than we do?
For Social Security we pay 6% and for NI you pay 11%.
So our total on the above is 31% and your total is 26%?

I'm sure there's a bunch of small variables like sales tax (VAT), state income tax, fuel taxes, tobacco taxes, etc., but for the majority of the tax burden it looks like you guys are paying less and can still afford better social programs.
So what am I missing?

Our top-tax rate, if you earn over £37,500 ($62,000) is 40%. Our NI is 23.8%. Our VAT is 15%, but will go back up to 17.5% in January 2010. You pay council tax for the house you live in, which is based on where your house is and how big it is. We pay road tax for our cars, which for a 1.2 litre petrol car is about £115 a year. We pay VAT and fuel tax on petrol and diesel. So yeah, we're drowning in it. But for some reason that doesn't stop us buying new cars and making our average house price £150,000 ($250,000) compared to the US $215,000. (And most of our houses are rabbit hutches compared to what the US has.)