[disc] Games Chart ? Will it work?

[Ray Beez]

I've just learned of Games Chart:

https://gameschart.com/register/developer

https://gameschart.com

And though I admit I didnt read through any help or FAQs on there, I'm wondering what you guys think. I don't understand their business model. Yes, I understand they will pay developers for clicks, etc, but I don't understand where THEIR money comes from. They say "no ads!" I'm left wondering if this will implode like GameJacket after burning through whatever cash they have.

My next thought is, why does anyone need this? The top 10 and even top 100 will inevitably be dominated by the same games, and of course get "gamed" by authors wanting to manipulate their game into the top spots.

Kinda seems like they want to be a portal and are doing so by paying devs?

Thoughts?

[.hooligan]

By using the GamesChart API, not only will Game Developers’ games be automatically entered into the charts, but they will also generate revenue from outbound clicks to game portals sponsoring chart games.

Publishers can sponsor games positioned in the chart so that players who click on games featured in the chart will be taken to the sponsor’s portal to play the game. Publishers can also receive a percentage of revenue by displaying games with the GamesChart API enabled.

It's weird, I think that sponsors pay to have a game on the charts link to their website and the developer get revenue from the clicks. Seems like ads to me.

Prediction... fail

[philgoddard]

Hi Guys,

I haven't posted on here for a looong time.

I thought i'd pitch in here as I actually work for GamesChart. I knew of GameJacket and actually worked with them on a couple of occasions, and yes, like sooo many other developers out there, i struggled getting paid.

GamesChart, albeit a casual games platform, is vastly different to GameJacket. I would equate GameJacket to MochiAds and other systems of that nature... GamesChart is truly unique in its model (which is why it will be a bit difficult to grasp in these early Beta stages)... however... i will now try :

* Revenue is generated by Game Publishers 'bidding' on Games within the GamesChart system on a 'pay-per-click' basis (e.g. 5c per click). The highest bidder receives traffic through to their site, for the Gamer to play the game on their site. This also means that Publishers need to upload the game to their site before they are able to receive traffic to that game.
* Developers earn up to 50% of all revenue generated by the 'ppc' model.
* Revenue generation is all automated through Paypal (and soon to be other payment systems), SO, as soon as a game is clicked on, the Developer receives their share... this way they don't have to wait for a cheque that will never emerge at the end of the month
* GamesChart also works rather well alongside systems like Mochi... you can even upload your MochiPack instead of your game. We don't like to think we're in competition with Mochi or anyone else, just helping Developers, Publishers and Gamers in a win-win-win situation.

To answer the last query... like all other official charts, the Official Chart on GamesChart will be reset every week, using the game-play data from the previous week to populate the charts. This is similar to music sales in the Billboard Chart, except we're working with gameplays. This means you won't always get the tyrant games at the top of the list every week, and it allows the one-man-bands to go up against the big boys We’ll also be feeding more category charts into the API, like a ‘puzzle game chart’ and a ‘what’s hot’ chart to keep things fresh, so there will be plenty of opportunities for all Developers to benefit from the additional boost in traffic should their game get featured.

To also summarise, i'd like to tell you and any other Developers that GamesChart has been developed BY Developers who are interested in maintaining the integrity of our industry. We hope to post something more official and actually do some kind of official statement once we are in full Beta, but until then, please feel free to get in touch if you'd like to know more

[philgoddard]

P.S. .hooligan - awesome Avatar pic... i saw the Boosh live a few years ago... amazing

[.hooligan]

Thanks mate.

It's good you came buy to clear it up. It's a little confusing on the concept. I think that might be the biggest problem. Getting the message across to developers and publishers.

Now I understand ill upgraded my prediction to - should be good

[philgoddard]

It will be a while before we're full steam ahead, but that's where Developers and Site Owners come in. The main thing for us is that we keep it fun and exciting. :P

[Ray Beez]

So... let's say I'm a portal owner, and there's a new game out "SuperMalioSisters", and its a super good game, getting real hot... It's not mine, I didnt sponsor it, I have no links in it, but if I win the "auction" so to speak, plays of that game will come through my site?

And then I pay for the traffic and hope to recoup my expense?

Question to portal owners out there: Do you pay for any of your traffic currently? (The closest example would be Google Ads and paid text links)

[philgoddard]

You're pretty much there Mr Beez

Providing "SuperMalioSisters" had been added to the GamesChart system, you, the portal owner, would be able to download it or copy the embed code from GamesChart.

You would then set up a campaign to receive geotargeted traffic to either that game or games of that genre (or other variables) based on a CPC (cost per click) basis e.g. "My budget is $500 per month, and i'm willing to pay up to 0.05c per click..."

If the portal owner is the current highest bidder, they will receive majority traffic, every time 'SuperMalioSisters' is clicked on from GamesChart or the GamesChart API from any game around the web.

The portal owner is always in control of their own expenditure, and they ONLY pay for the traffic that they receive to their site (instead of hoping to receive, like traditional advertising).

Hope this helps

[Ray Beez]

You're pretty much there Mr Beez
The portal owner is always in control of their own expenditure, and they ONLY pay for the traffic that they receive to their site (instead of hoping to receive, like traditional advertising).

CPC (cost per click)

What would be the minimum click bid? (Couldn't find Publisher/Portal info on your site)

[philgoddard]

The minimum click bid would be set to just $0.01 USD (1 cent)

We're still in 'Developer Beta' and thus hoping to launch 'Publisher Beta' in the next week or so. Ideally we need to get enough Developers interested and Games on the system, before it is attractive enough for Publishers to start effectively using the system... one step at a time

[TheBluePriest]

wouldnt it be easy enough to simply find someone to fund your game, and simply keep clicking on the link yourself? I mean, if you wanted to take the time, you could clikc at a link 10000 times a day, or just set up a macro to do it, and then you will be making 100$ a day. Even if the most you can recieve a month is 500, it would be an easy 500, and if you had 2 games, an easy 1000, 3-1500, you get my point.

[TheBluePriest]

p.s. not saying its not impossible to stop this, but it would be easy enought to find a proxy site, or just switch IP in the macro (for those who know how to do it of course aka not me lol)

[Ray Beez]

The minimum click bid would be set to just $0.01 USD (1 cent)

I was afraid of that. I did the math, and unless I did it wrong, even 0.01 per click isn't worth it.

Average ad revenue is in the $1 eCPM, maybe $2 if you're lucky. And no, this isnt Mochi revenue, this is bigger ad network advertising on a page. Your minium puts the cost at $10 CPM.

Anyways, good luck. Too expensive for my blood.

[philgoddard]

I thought the following scenarios would be useful to help understand the true cost of driving traffic to a Publisher site:

A) In the case that a Publisher successfully received 1000 geo-targeted ‘clicks’ through GamesChart at the minimum bid PPC value of $0.01, he would spend a total amount of $10.

B) On the other hand, an extremely successful CPM banner advertising campaign with a 2% CTR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click-through_rate), that Publisher would have to generate 50,000 ad impressions to generate the same 1000 ‘clicks’. So in essence, to achieve the same number of ‘clicks’ through to their site with CPM advertising a Publisher would need to be able to buy geo-targeted CPM advertising at $0.20 CPM.

GamesChart guarantees that every single click is a gamer and we know that for sure because a game has to be active and loaded before any games in the chart can be clicked. I don’t think you can say the same for traditional CPM banner advertising, because CPM ads could be shown anywhere.

Hope this helps to clarify it a bit more.

[Ray Beez]

I thought the following scenarios would be useful to help understand the true cost of driving traffic to a Publisher site:

A) In the case that a Publisher successfully received 1000 geo-targeted ‘clicks’ through GamesChart at the minimum bid PPC value of $0.01, he would spend a total amount of $10.

B) On the other hand, an extremely successful CPM banner advertising campaign with a 2% CTR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click-through_rate), that Publisher would have to generate 50,000 ad impressions to generate the same 1000 ‘clicks’. So in essence, to achieve the same number of ‘clicks’ through to their site with CPM advertising a Publisher would need to be able to buy geo-targeted CPM advertising at $0.20 CPM.

GamesChart guarantees that every single click is a gamer and we know that for sure because a game has to be active and loaded before any games in the chart can be clicked. I don’t think you can say the same for traditional CPM banner advertising, because CPM ads could be shown anywhere.

Hope this helps to clarify it a bit more.

I'm not sure you completely understood. My talk about CPMs is not about spending, but PUBLISHER REVENUE.

Let's say I, as a site, AKA "publisher", get my 1000 gamers to my site and it costs me $10 to get them. What I am saying to you is: My site's advertising revenue will NOT make my money back! At the most I might make $2 to $3 for those 1000 visitors. So after using your service my site will be +1000 visitors for one day and all the bandwidth that incurs, but -$7 to -$8 financially.

[Squize]

We've just posted a Q&A with Barry about GamesChart over at the blog, hopefully it covers off a couple of questions about it.

Squize.

[Alluvian]

SuperMalioSisters

So late to the party, but just wanted to call that out for awesome.

I so want to design that game.

They, of course, should be electricians named Malio and Lurigi, who have to fight the evil Wowzer to save Princess Bleach. This fight would occur on the internet, which is a series of tubes.



Regarding pulisher revenue, how much they MAKE for those 1000 gamers really depends on bounce rate for this traffic, doesn't it? If the gamer comes from Games Chart, and gets redirected to awesomecheapripoffgames.com to play SuperWalioSisters and then goes right back to Games Chart, then ACRG.com loses money. If enough of those gamers stick around to play Space Carrier, Super Tantra, Street Biter IV, then they will make money. The will definately make money if they get return visits from that gamer.

DAMN! Now I want to make Street Biter IV as well. It is a physics based ragdoll fighting game filled with the fastest masticating cannibals you have ever SEEN. They punch and kick, but also eat each other. There are no health meters, just increasing handicap as your limbs get slowly eaten down to nubs by your opponent's special bite attacks. The winner is the first to eat the others heart. Or brain if you want to go with zombies as the fighters.

[Ray Beez]

Alluvian: Do you run a game site? If so then you should know already that the more pages a visitor visits, the less eCPM you get per page view. The best revenue comes from the first ad views that visitor makes. And unless they are addicted to the game and bookmark your page, they aren't coming back.

In my experience, when a high traffic site features one of my game pages, I see a big spike in traffic on that day. Then day 2 it's half of the traffic, then by day 3 or 4 traffic is back to "normal" levels.

All Phil has to say to sway my opinion is that minimums might start at something like 10, 20 or 100 clicks for $0.01 . ;-)

[Ray Beez]

PS: From Squize's blog:
"We’ve been noticing recently that people have been bidding an average of $0.60 per click for ‘flash game’ related keywords on certain popular advertising-word based pay per click system. "

I'd like to point out that such bids are most likely for sites selling something. It makes much more sense in this context if you are trying to convert visitors into customers who purchase games for anywhere between $4.99 to $19.99 or more. Or they are a site like "BattleOn", or 'Evony", etc who are trying to sign up paying players.

[Alluvian]

Alluvian: Do you run a game site? If so then you should know already that the more pages a visitor visits, the less eCPM you get per page view. The best revenue comes from the first ad views that visitor makes. And unless they are addicted to the game and bookmark your page, they aren't coming back.

Nope, definitely do not run a games portal, and I believe you run several, so you are no doubt the expert. I should have probably put my "doesn't it?" disclaimer at the front of my question and not at the end to make it read more like the plea for information it was meant to be, and not a statement of fact. And the word definitely did not belong in that post at all.

I do run a small site, which is pretty dormant now with my wife working 50-60 hours a week, so I am aware of how fast links from external sources fall off.