:rolleyes:...you suckin' up for a mod role or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
Printable View
:rolleyes:...you suckin' up for a mod role or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
actually, it's not such a bad idea.
...the new owners deserve someone like you contributing in the team room like you do in the lounge.
No. See below.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
You've just demonstrated my point. If I were running this site, I would want moderators to be more moderate than some of the older ones here. The partial treatment of members has created a clique atmosphere that isn't very conducive to welcoming new members to participate. In fact, at least within the professional community of flash developers in Los Angeles, Flashkit earned a reputation for immaturity as of at least 4-5 years ago. I think that some of the mods (definitely not all) are the main reason for that. A partial changing of the guard could be a good thing for the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
And anyway, what do you mean by contributing in the team room? Talking about which members you do or don't like (don't tell me that didn't happen. I have sources. :D)? How did you contribute as a mod differently than any other long term poster?
you really are a prat. You have no idea how much I have contributed here in the past ten years. Just go ask every single webmaster there has ever been on FK and you might have some idea.
The only reason people like you get to post relatively unharmed is because I was a good moderator, tried to moderate the responses of others, and didn't let my emotions or ego drive me to the ban button.
dp
...oh, and just do the post count thing and remember that posts in the lounge do not count. Your 147 looks a little pathetic when you compare.
At least I have contributed in other forums and not spent most of my time wringing my gums and getting people pissed off in the lounge.
dp
I have a pretty good idea of how you have contributed to the board having been an active member for much of that 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I'm asking, in what way, beyond just posting your opinions like others, have you contributed as a moderator "in the team room" or somewhere else? What have you written there made the board better? I'm not saying you haven't. I just want to know what you're talking about since you've referred to it a number of times now.
Exactly. So maybe the board would benefit from removing the emotion and ego so that it can better represent flashkit as a whole rather than a small band of friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I've posted a lot more than 147 in other forums and would have continued to do so under different circumstances. Another case in point.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
...only if you are a previously removed member returned under a different name. I am sure that is usually against the rules (unless it was agreed to in the team lounge by discussion, and you were given dispensation to do so).
You are still a prat, and no matter how many posts you claim to have made, I am pretty sure you will continue to be a prat. If you had a previous identity, that one must have been a prat as well ...to want a name change and new forum personality.
david
What member had to change their name because it affected their business again?
Exactly...
Anyway, FK has always been known as "Flash Kindergarten" back when Macromedia refused to acknowledge this site. Adobe seems to have continued that. There's nothing new there really. I'd have to say that people tend to learn here, continue on elsewhere. It's been the trend. Again, nothing new there either.
As far as "band of friends" and cliques, I know plenty of professionals/people that's entered the CL only to be turned off by the rampant political extremism by "certain folks". And as it stands, it was allowed, why? Because the CL is a free area.
To be able to post in an area unencumbered was established some 10 years ago. Enjoy it.
As far as the rest of what's been said, I'm sure the webmaster would actually love new ideas. The site needs them.
No sarcasm.
He requested his old name be removed (read: banned) before signing back up. I can vouch for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
...it's too bad I can't search the team room for the thread in question to refresh my memory.
I am sure I can remember that we were basically giving someone a second chance because they had pissed too many people off, and I am sure it would not have happened unless the supermods (including me) agreed to it.
david
I can even remember a doubting comment about a leopard and spots ..whether it was mine or not I can't remember.
Name-calling...really?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Agreed that it's been that way for a long time now. However, I don't think it needed to be that and it could change. In my view, the moderators play a major role in shaping the perception of the community.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
I don't think there's anything wrong with free areas. I'm speaking more to how partial some mods have been toward members (possibly for opinions expressed in the free areas).Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Re-examining the mod staff policies would be a great start, imo. Trying to attract more industry-involved people. Re-arranging the topics to condense some of the help sections and add some of the areas of flash that have evolved from the industry (User Experience, theory type discussion, etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
From a marketing perspective, these types of changes are going to be most effective if they're made known (even if in an abstract way). For example, advertising a "re-boot" as jAQUAN mentioned. "After 10 years, Flashkit is changing colors. Check back on 1/1/2013 to see the new yellow!" (Maybe bad example but you get the idea).
I think that was clifgriffin.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
we have discussed a lot of problematic members in the team lounge over the years (as you pointed out earlier), and they all blur into the same annoyance at a disturbance in the force after a while ...but decision making there was generally consensual.
dp
Exactly. A clique.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I vote that people with very bad tendencies to abuse the free areas start by showing that they can act better. Want better moderation, be more moderate.
Otherwise, the moderation team will continue to waste time on you when other things are more important. Do less stuff that gets negative attention in the free area of FK, then it frees up the moderation team from having to deal with you and police each thread you're in less and go help people instead.
Simply put, don't stir up trouble; it's unwanted.
Want FK to change its stripes, it starts with all involved; from members up to administration. Do your part instead of holding onto what you've deemed as an ability, which others call abuse.
If you feel compelled to answer, then it must be true. It's that simple. I have no time to waste on people, most have entered my very short list of ignored - which is pretty damn permanent placement. I only used to get complaints by a few people about a few people. Why? Because they were consistent in their actions - which is downright tiring.
So I'll repeat it. Being a member doesn't mean you're free to abuse the free areas. It means that you've become a problem. And unfortunately, there's more problems here than solutions.
Want to continue point fingers, one finger forward has three more pointing back at yourself.
Be part of a solution or narrow your comments to how you can improve the site because as it stands, you've probably been a problem.
DP, to explain... Indivision came to me directly, asked what were the rules around name changes. I said the likelihood of a name change was closer to zero, so it was a new user. I banned the old user, he signed up as FlashLackey. If anything, there was no thread, just a process that I did on my own... as I had done with one other user that requested a name change and we had the long-standing rule... no name changes.
As far as discussing that user as a problem, well... your memory is not faulty. Guess in a very roundabout way, that whole "circle of friends"/clique thing seems to include, not exclude, the person that brought it up. How ironic.
You know, I try, and I try to give you the benefit of doubt ...I put it down to cultural differences...I try and understand why you are so dense and say such stupid stuff ...but it still escapes me.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
We have continuously replaced and added new moderators over the years, most of whom I have not known, or been aware of, until they were put forward by existing mods when a need has arisen, suggested by respected members or at the request of the site owners.
The cliques live here in the lounge.
gerbs, I do remember a discussion of this in the team room. Maybe it was after the event, but it was discussed.
I even remembered what the old user name was (so my mind is not fading as quick as I thought).
david
Yep. The complaints were numerous. The reason behind the name change were not surrounding our discussions. Just... timed real darn close.
Again, this whole "clique" and "circle of friends" is somewhat a shaky argument to start since I know both sides of this story way too well. Simply put, how many times does a site allow such actions, when directly requested to a person with supermod powers and have it done despite being an oft complained entity?
The clique/circle of friends argument falls apart because that person that's complaining about it actually got preferential treatment. If that treatment benefits that person, it's not a problem. When it doesn't, then it's a problem apparently (see above)
Going forward, it's ignorable whatever else is stated simply because of the aforementioned reasons. And yes, you were right about that thread - I also came into that thread a bit later and explained it then too. If anything, feel free to blame me.
Seems like me being kind and understanding of a situation has been used against me by the person that benefited the most. Go figure.
I just came back from my vacation to see that news. I just can't believe THEY let you go that easy! I just saw the thread where not one of the admins said something like 'please don't', just a quick "thanks and bye"!
I'm just shocked.
As another 2000's member, this is very saddening news.
gparis
thank you gp ...I am still not cured of the site, as you can see :)
david
In all the years that I've been here, I have always respected the rules of the board. The only thing I've done that invoked "negative attention" is explain and defend opinions that some people disagree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Are you saying that I should avoid having certain opinions? If so, shouldn't the forum rules define which opinions are allowed and which are not?
I don't want to stir up trouble. There are a number of members here that I have enjoyed getting to know. I would like to see this community improve and I genuinely think that some mod changes would help make that happen. It could help move the focus from "who is cool in my book" to "who brings industry-related value and maturity to the site".Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
How is having an opinion abusing the free areas?Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
Did you not get preferential treatment?
I'll answer any questions you have, pending you answer mine with a simple yes/no and only if I receive that answer without anything else added to it.
If you cannot, then I personally request that you do not ask me anything else ever again. That's fair since this is a "free area" of FK. Savvy?
Which mods do you think should be removed? ...and who do you think should replace them?Quote:
I genuinely think that some mod changes would help make that happen
dp
I am sure planet is watching to be sure this doesn't turn into a flamefest and will be interested in your opinion
Cultural differences? So, you're saying that you think people from my culture are dense?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Indeed. There are a number of good mods here, as I noted.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Jesus I leave for 5 days...
It's your fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBe_80z
no, just you...but I have thought long and hard about why you were so dense, and cultural differences was one thing i thought of topossibly explain to myself..Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
I dismissed the idea that it might be cultural and finally just decided you were a prat.
dp
Good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I don't know all of the mods or how they have all behaved toward the company or in team communication. So, I couldn't say without more information.
I think that such moves should be a process involving multiple people, based on criteria (such as whether or not the person is a fit for the subject of the board in regard to involvement with the flash industry).
I'm not perfect by any means. I readily admit and accept my faults and mistakes. However, I'm confident that I am neither dense or a prat.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Do you think that moderators or any other member of this forum should flame other members? Do you think that flaming detracts from the professionalism of the board? Should the rules be applied to some members but not others, depending on whether or not their opinions are popular?
...and that is EXACTLY what happened, and has always happened, up till quite recently, when unknowns have been added by the site owners. I have always questioned such appointments.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
dp
I think that is common in prats.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
I think 'flaming' is open to interpretation. It is one of the things a moderator needs to decide about, and even stuff like that gets discussed in the team lounge.Quote:
Do you think that moderators or any other member of this forum should flame other members?
I think a professional board should not have a lounge. The forums I am admin for do not.Quote:
Do you think that flaming detracts from the professionalism of the board?
Rules are for interpretation by responsible people ...and what do you think actually causes popularity? ...your views??? god forbid ...it is about how many people like you ...for whatever reason they do.Quote:
Should the rules be applied to some members but not others, depending on whether or not their opinions are popular?
dp
I was thinking more about replacements rather than new additions.
The "multiple people" I was thinking of would be the people with the most stake in the company that want or can be involved with the decisions. It's their business after all. They should be represented in the community by people that respect their interests and goals. I don't know them. If it turns out that they have no interest in improving Flashkit's image in the professional community, I suppose no changes are needed.
You're answering more than being answered, DP.
Do you think that it's unique to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Do you think that calling someone a prat can be interpreted to be anything other than flaming?Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
Why did you edit your post to remove those statements, explaining "to be sure this doesn't turn into a flamefest"?
I don't see why not. People get to know each other on forums and it's better organized to put off-subject conversations in their own area.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I don't see how that answers my question about whether or not flaming detracts from a board. There are plenty of forums that have free areas that don't allow the types of personal attacks and flaming that you've resorted to here.
How is someone behaving responsibly when they are breaking the very rules they are supposed to believe in? It seems like the responsible thing to do is to replace such people with others who have more respect for the community.Quote:
Originally Posted by david petley
I like many people with very different views than mine, including many on this board. So, yes, I agree that peoples opinions shouldn't affect how they are treated. I don't think that concept is observed well by some here.
I misread this, I thought you were talking about personal popularity, but there have been (and still are) a number of members here who do not share my views, who I still have great respect for ...Lansite and TGLC leap to mind straightaway as prime examples ...it is not about politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
In a forum like this it is about how good you type and whether what you type has any relevance to what has been typed previously, or interest to others who might want to join, or even just read, a typed discussion.
...it is the only form of communication we have here and some do it good, and others don't, and some do it good sometimes but not others, and others just can't do it good anytime.
dp
no, just common.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashLackey
Obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.Quote:
Do you think that calling someone a prat can be interpreted to be anything other than flaming?
sorry, not sure what you mean here, I have not removed anything from my posts in this thread, just added stuff.Quote:
Why did you edit your post to remove those statements, explaining "to be sure this doesn't turn into a flamefest"?
your opinion, not mine, you are welcome to it and do not need me to agree or approve.Quote:
I don't see why not. People get to know each other on forums and it's better organized to put off-subject conversations in their own area.
As i said, what is flaming is personal intepretation, i do not think I have done that here. You think I have...k, hit the 'report this post' button.Quote:
I don't see how that answers my question about whether or not flaming detracts from a board.
I agree that interpretation of flaming varies across different communites, but I think you need to find the one with the levels you can tolerate, or just fo to the webmaster and complain. I am sure he will give you a hearing, and be happy to remove offensive words, or add them to the banned word filter.Quote:
There are plenty of forums that have free areas that don't allow the types of personal attacks and flaming that you've resorted to here.
dp
:scared:Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick
FlashLackey, this is not the thread for that type of argument. If you wish to continue, i suggest you start another thread. I'm saddened by david petley's decision of leaving the team, specially after him being a member for 10 years like me and some other mods here, and I am very bothered by that exchange on the same thread where he announces his decision.
gparis
How about the mods are getting paid before talking to remove or replace them or threaten them. I can see here the corporation sound. And I fully understand David. However, I do not agree with his decision, because if you want to change you should not quit by yourself. Get fired, so others can see what kind of atmosphere there is. That will in the end destroy the company, because only a company where people are happy to do their job will be successful. Google is No 4 among top fortune companies as one example.