Can we file a class action against Apple?

[hanratty21]

@Frets - I'm not talking about first responder types. I'm talking about medical electronic records usage. I'm talking about Financial pros walking on the floor of the exchange and around their respective trading floors. I'm talking about hooking into legal research with minimal equipment on the fly. I'm talking about custom apps built for specific professionals.

As I said...I simply want to go on the record here as saying this is where I see growth in this particular computing format. I think Apple's growth will continue to be their ongoing Mac sales to existing PC users and iPhone expansion into more markets and more carriers. This will be an ancillary win for them, but a win nonetheless.

A few companies converted their entire warehouse inventory tracking systems over to the Newton only to be left in the dust.

Not really a big deal. Cap Ex that didn't quite work out. If they are large companies, and they do it right, they still take the tax advantage, depreciate the investment over 3 years, then move on. No more dust.

*bookmarked for one year from today*

[FlashLackey]

I don't see any grounds for a law suit.

But, I think they may have miscalculated what the response would be to this move. Sure seems like it leaves the door wide open for a competing phone to sweep up significant market share if they can accommodate flash. As many iphone apps as there are, I'm pretty sure that the flash dev skill-base could (and would) make that many apps in a very short time.

Also, I think it was lame of them to wait until now to make the decision. The ability to make iphone apps via CS5 is something that has been assumed on its way by developers for a long time now. I know we've discussed it with clients who were already chomping at the bit to have us build them. I think they pulled the rug out from under a lot of people.

[FlashLackey]

Came across this:

So from Apple’s perspective, changing the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement to prohibit the use of things like Flash CS5 and MonoTouch to create iPhone apps makes complete sense. I’m not saying you have to like this. I’m not arguing that it’s anything other than ruthless competitiveness. I’m not arguing (up to this point) that it benefits anyone other than Apple itself. I’m just arguing that it makes sense from Apple’s perspective — and it was Apple’s decision to make.

Flash CS5 and MonoTouch aren’t so much cross-platform as meta-platforms. Adobe’s goal isn’t to help developers write iPhone apps. Adobe’s goal is to encourage developers to write Flash apps that run on the iPhone (and elsewhere) instead of writing iPhone-specific apps. Apple isn’t just ambivalent about Adobe’s goals in this regard — it is in Apple’s direct interest to thwart them.

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/wh...ed_section_331

The problem for Apple on this point is that Adobe's goal clearly benefits the greater good in terms of widening the base of capable developers that are making applications. I understand why Apple wants to "thwart" them. But, I think it's a poorly chosen battle.

[Frets]

@hr
My Sister is an outpatient nurse for a large northern michigan hospital. When she uses a toughbook. Not one of those super durable top of the line toughbook but a toughbook nonetheless. It makes for seemless integration with the hospitals recordkeeping software.

I've got a friend who is the regional manager for Tim Hortons in Manitoba. He's on the road constantly. He brings his blackberry and his 16 laptop. For things that require standing or walking around his bb does just fine. When he needs to sit down he sits down with the laptop where he can do all the longtext entries. An Ipad would replace niether.

My brother is a comptroller for a midwestern utility company. He uses his blackberry on the road and his desktop at his two offices. He's not about to lug around an ipad or a laptop when checking out the industrial sites. Most of his on the road data crunching is done on the blackberry.

[jAQUAN]

Not really a big deal. Cap Ex that didn't quite work out. If they are large companies, and they do it right, they still take the tax advantage, depreciate the investment over 3 years, then move on. No more dust.

So if a company was "doing it right" wouldn't they weigh the possibility that their custom app may never make it to the store. I certainly wouldn't want to take that chance if I were paying a bundle to have a custom app built. I'd be much more likely to go with a more open device like the HP Slate.

[Googooboyy]

First and foremost, I don't agree with all this 'let's thwart flash off' thingy by Apple, but I do see their scant story. Though I do think that it's unfair, I do think that they have the option to do so. And aren't the ones that feel pain the most are those without permission to enter into the playground?

Anyway about lawsuits, and considering Apple's corporatic size, I don't think they'd taken that decision without consulting legal advice -- unless they really skipped the lawyers and made the announcement, just because.

From my simple point of view, whose best (and only) working application to date is the "hello world" app, I deduce that Apple's merely trying to 'control' what ingredients goes into making a cake for sale in their bakery. In case there's food poisoning, they'd know that it's definitely one of their own ingredients, and rectifying internally is way simpler.

[hanratty21]

@Frets - We'll finish this debate in 364 days. (and counting)

@jAQUAN - It happens. Not every tech investment that you make as a corporation pans out. Hardware dies, software is useless...you take stock and move on. As far as the HP Slate goes, I agree...it looks good, so does the JooJoo or whatever it's called. Like I said, fanboys and haters aside...this thing will create a huge revenue stream as mainstream, enterprise level development firms begin to embrace what this type of device could mean for their customers. 364 days and counting...tick tock.

[jAQUAN]

I'm not debating the peaks and valleys of corporate decisions, write-offs, lessons learned et al. I'm debating that an iPad would still be a wise decision after the most basic of pros and cons list when researching such a maneuver. One hotel chain is considering offering iPads as an amenity when staying in one of their rooms. That will probably sell bundles. But integrating them as a new point of sale or records keeping device simply has too much built in risk when faced with apples approval process and policy changes.

[hanratty21]

...But integrating them as a new point of sale or records keeping device simply has too much built in risk when faced with apples approval process and policy changes.

This is one of those 'agree to disagree' moments. Like I said, I am talking about enterprise level development. The approval scrutiny process should not be a concern at that level. T minus 364.

[gerbick]

HR, do you really do believe that they've gotten a platform that will generate a stream of revenue for them a year later?

Things like the Apple TV (albeit not enterprise, that's entertainment) really didn't make a splash or even a dent in that market. I feel as if the iPad will end up like the MS Origami... a lot of hype, but lacking "something" that people want from a platform as such.

I just can't say what that something is. Some will say Flash. Some will say video. Some will say the ability to install outside of the iTunes Music Store eco-system. To me; I'm not sure what it will be that's missing - for me, it's something entirely different.

I'm curious what the next year will bring. The very next version of the iPad adds a forward facing camera; I think that's their killer app to be honest. That happens, different ballgame totally.

[hanratty21]

Again. Let me reiterate. I am talking about enterprise level development. Think about large corporations with a particular function that they can mobilize and keep fully functional because of a piece of hardware, not geeks buying apps from the iTunes store.

Turn on CNBC one year from now and look at all the suits traversing the floor of the exchange...iPad in hand streaming quotes and allowing them the mobility needed to do their job...better.

Camera is missing - agreed. It's not about features on the hardware though. It's about the implementation. Killer app of the 90's was email. Blackberry changed the game and evolved email from the killer app that it was to the KILLER app that it is today. It wasn't about what was on the device...it was about how it was implemented with the Exchange Server. Again...implementation, not necessarily feature set.

In my prognosticating way, I am 'seeing' this thing change the way people work...not as yet another tool to do their work.

tick tock.

looks like I'm not the only one who thinks this...


*edit* I think part of the problem is that people in this forum are so ingrained in technology and so opinionated about what they want in a mobile computing tool, we're not seeing this thing for what it is. It's not a big iPhone minus the phone. It's not a keyboard-less laptop. It's something unabashedly new.

[jAQUAN]

It's fine that you disagree with me HR, I'm just wondering how you can rationalize the risk of the installation funnel. As pointed out in this forum, failure to develop along certain guidelines will get your application denied not to mention last minute surprises despite pre-approval. I don't know if you're envisioning a killer 3rd party app or a custom enterprise app but either way there's zero guarantee your employees will be able to install it. This is not a doubt that such an app would allow the iPad to flourish, its a doubt that the money would be invested in developing the app in the first place unless there's some way to install software other than the app store that I don't know about.

[silverx2]

i can see Hospital scenario pretty clearly as being the easiest place to implement, however id give it 6 months for development of the software, switching platforms, training you would be looking at best case scenario based on budgets and planning of maybe one hospital being used as a test ground in 12 months. Right now the time frame HR has given seems a little too ambitious for a new technology to be both developed for and implemented in some enviroments.

[silverx2]

It's fine that you disagree with me HR, I'm just wondering how you can rationalize the risk of the installation funnel. As pointed out in this forum, failure to develop along certain guidelines will get your application denied not to mention last minute surprises despite pre-approval. I don't know if you're envisioning a killer 3rd party app or a custom enterprise app but either way there's zero guarantee your employees will be able to install it. This is not a doubt that such an app would allow the iPad to flourish, its a doubt that the money would be invested in developing the app in the first place unless there's some way to install software other than the app store that I don't know about.

if shriners hospital went to apple and said "we have this software we want to use, we need your hardware to use it, we would like to buy 1000 ipads and have this software working

a deal will get done.

[hanratty21]

...a custom enterprise app...
...there's some way to install software other than the app store that I don't know about...

You said it, man.

[Frets]

And that amongst other things is the deal breaker. Which is where this thread started.
Do you think,,,, General Motors who uses eds is seriously going to invest in these ipad things when they wouldn't be able to pull network installs?
Do you think Network Administrators are going to manually download and install an eds app for each and every ipad at a given location.

I don't see fed ex or ups giving up the current tracking model for ipads

[WannaBe_80z]

I'm not aware of all the guidelines and how the apple development model works- BUT I think that if a huge enterprise size business was looking into using the iPad for their inventory system with a custom app or something along those lines that they might be able to work something out directly with Apple? I would think they could work something out if the business has a shopping cart full of 10k iPads...

Damn when I started to type that it was a direct reply to HR post. You all have the same idea

[silverx2]

the UPS handhelds are made like tanks, i have seen one get run over by a car and still work.

Also its about half the size of an ipad.

Where the ipad will shine is an enviroment where you would normally be taking notes on paper(doctors visit)

patient sits down, doctor takes notes on is ipad, sends the patient for xrays, xrays get processed and sent to the ipad, the doctor then uses the ipad to show the patient said xrays.

in order for it to work everything is going to need to be linked and working as one. this is not an Apple Aps situation. this is a stand alone software/os situation which i dont think apple is ruling out. however i doubt this setup will be done in flash.

[WannaBe_80z]

The doctors office I visit they all have their own little netbooks. They just stroll on in with a cart with all the stuff they need with the laptop on top and it's linked to everything they need. They take down notes and get all older records on it. I thought it was pretty advanced for a "small" town family doctors office. I would imagine that bigger hospitals are way out their with software/hardware as well.

[jAQUAN]

You said it, man.

Without jailbreaking.